2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Area to post questions, comments, and discussions regarding this annual contest.
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Rekka Alexiel
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by Rekka Alexiel »

Ooh, you want me to break stuff!? Cool! I'm in for that! xD

I also have some basic Web design knowledge and my own domain to host stuff if you need. I don't know about how you can set up individuals to upload stuff, though. If you need more people to design images, I could try to help with that as well. I'd need a point to start from, though; examples from previous years.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by BuraddoRun »

sensei wrote: 3. Two people to recheck vote counts. May I tap BuraddoRun for this and ask for one more volunteer on this front?
Sure, I'd be glad to help.
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." -Isaiah 1:18
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by zerospace »

sensei -- if I'm hosting & we're using my site you won't need the following:

1. Entry uploaders -- it's handled by the site. What you will need is a person or two to handle approving uploaded entries (e.g. make sure they meet the rules). There's a login & password that gets set up for access to the site administration that you would need to entrust to those who are going to do this job.

2. Vote counters -- this is handled by the site. Computers are good at one thing: counting. Better than humans, in fact ;).

What's needed to set the site up that I created:

- Graphics & design (color scheme)
- A category list & rule sets (translated into several languages, usually).

Setting up the site is quite easy. You may want to delegate some of the tasks of running things with it, though.

Someone must manually open and close entry submissions when that time comes, and then someone (or multiple someones) need to handle approving entries. I usually, as the webmaster, voluntarily keep an eye on the voting stats, which show things like who has voted & from what IP address (making sure no one is hopefully cheating here), and whether or not they voted in any of the optional categories (if they entered, the rules have been that they must also vote in these categories). Someone must also tally the vote logs manually at the end & set the winners (I have usually done this in the past as the webmaster, because I also have to upload the personalized trophy images, so it's easy enough to handle all of it at once, but anyone can actually "set" the winners).

If I end up hosting, I'll send you and/or the rest of the volunteers everything you'll need to understand how the site works & how to use it, etc. ;)
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by BuraddoRun »

Not to jump ahead while we're still in the Committee Organization stage, but I want to just post this before I forget.

Looking at categories, the existing collection is pretty comprehensive already, but I was thinking that maybe adding and/or changing a category or 2 might make things fresh for returning participants. So here's one I thought of that might be fun: Unmatching. What this category could be is not something as simple as having an unmatching background, but rather a multi-layered set-up with cels from different shows, or an obviously mismatching background to make a scene that looks unique. This came to me when I was imagining playing with cels like that to make "dream scenes," kind of like those crossover video games they do like Namco X Capcom or the Super Robot Taisen series. This may also give hope to newbie collectors ( :wink: ) who may not have a lot of cels that would top a regular category and would allow entrants to express personal creativity in this particular category.

Then again, maybe this would go against the spirit of the contest since it's not so much "our" creativity but the original artists' creativity that we're voting on? I don't know, maybe it would be a fun optional category. Anyway, just a thought.
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." -Isaiah 1:18
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

@ zerospace: :emb This is why I'd like an "institutional memory" person. I haven't been involved past the vote-counting and site-breaking levels, and so it's predictable that I'll be able to pick up just so much from past threads. Can I count on the tech-savvy site-breakers who have volunteered to help out with the tasks zerospace lays out?

@ BuraddoRun: I do think it would be worthwhile to propose starting some new categories and perhaps terminating or merging old ones. I don't want to move too quickly, though, so the Awards Team can get up to speed on what we are doing. Let's start a new thread to propose and discuss possible changes and clarifications, as I know that seeming to move too quickly on these matters risks putting off older participants and scaring newbies.

I wouldn't mind having an optional category for novel backgrounds (including Photoshopped ones?) but would like to have it discussed thoroughly in its own place before moving ahead.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by pixie_princess »

I agree that sketches should be viewed and judged with their peers. It is still doubly hard for the genga to compete against a cel even if it is a very striking piece.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by HigurashiArchives »

I'd be willing to offer an upload script if you need it. So your contestants can upload their work correct?

While my website is still in beta I'm willing to offer the upload code to you.
http://art.tsubasa.us
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

HigurashiArchives wrote:I'd be willing to offer an upload script if you need it. So your contestants can upload their work correct?

While my website is still in beta I'm willing to offer the upload code to you.
Thank you, HA, but we are moving ahead with zerospace's offer to host the cel contest this time. However, your kind offer is appreciated, and perhaps the organizer of the sketch contest later this year will take you up on it.

I'd say the more options we have in contest hosting/managing, the better for us all, as otherwise the same people do it each time and inevitably become weary of it. Let's keep moving the work around and keep the event alive.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by HigurashiArchives »

sensei wrote:
HigurashiArchives wrote:I'd be willing to offer an upload script if you need it. So your contestants can upload their work correct?

While my website is still in beta I'm willing to offer the upload code to you.
Thank you, HA, but we are moving ahead with zerospace's offer to host the cel contest this time. However, your kind offer is appreciated, and perhaps the organizer of the sketch contest later this year will take you up on it.

I'd say the more options we have in contest hosting/managing, the better for us all, as otherwise the same people do it each time and inevitably become weary of it. Let's keep moving the work around and keep the event alive.

No problem, if you need help with anything just let me know. I can assist with a lot of different web technologies: PHP, Perl, MySQL, Javascript, AJAX, etc.
Didn't realize zerospace was on it already, definitely the better choice, hope I get to work with him I'd love to get some tips and pointers from someone who's been in the web development field so long.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by zerospace »

HigurashiArchives wrote:No problem, if you need help with anything just let me know. I can assist with a lot of different web technologies: PHP, Perl, MySQL, Javascript, AJAX, etc.
Didn't realize zerospace was on it already, definitely the better choice, hope I get to work with him I'd love to get some tips and pointers from someone who's been in the web development field so long.
I'm a "she" ... and feel free to PM me -- it appears we use the same languages, too -- PHP, MySQL, JS, ajax ;). JS is my bane -- just warning you. Anyone who knows me knows how much I loathe Javascript -- I play nice with it as much as possible, but there's something I hate so much about a programming language that's trying to read like english and constantly spewing stupid 'not defined' errors at me. Gah! :rollin Sorry ... it's just that I have a long & twisted history with Javascript.

I'm not making any serious changes to the awards site code this year (aside from plugging that little hole, which I've already done) -- I just don't have time. There's so many ways it should be cleaned up & vastly improved (I've considered making it database-driven, but I had really wanted it to be super-portable to even free hosting environments), but I'm in total catch-up mode on everything from the holidays. And I really need to finish the current update to my gallery software -- I've been promising an update to bulleta for at least 8 months now. *sigh* Last year was the first time I missed a yearly update to Meteor Galleries -- I'm almost ashamed to say that, but I suppose in the state it's in, it works quite well & isn't in absolute dire need. Ahh... always behind...

Anyways... I'm working on getting this year's site ready with the help of the graphic designers.

So umm... will there be any discussion on categories? Everyone's so quiet...
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

Sorry: I've been doing battle with financial documents all this week ... ah, the joys of retirement! And the team of heroes (add star-phoenix to the list, who got left off in a dim moment despite her eagerness to help) has been somewhat quiet on what new wrinkles to propose. In general, the list of categories has worked well in the recent past, and so it seems that no really major changes are in order. Here (for reference) is the most recent (2011) list:
CATEGORIES:

(C) = Cel (H) = Hanken (MC) = Model Cel (O) = Other (P) = Painting (R) = Rilezu
Accessory - Emphasis on what the character is holding, using, swinging, playing, aiming. (C, R)
Action - Scenes of action, movement, motion. (C, R)
Background - No characters allowed. (C, P, R)
Children - Youth, babies, kids. (C, R)
Creature - Animals, monsters, pets, catgirls, demons. (C, R)
Cute - Adorable, precious, toothache inducing. (C, R)
Death - Characters in the final throws of death, or those that have already passed away. (C, R)
Embarrassed - Blushing, mortified, awkwardness, total humiliation. (C, R)
Fan Art - Made by you or another artist. (C, P, O)
Female - The fairer sex. (C, R)
Funny - Laugh out loud moments. (C, R)
Group - Art of two or more characters. (C, R)
Hanken - Art used for merchandise or other non-production special circumstances. Hankens are not allowed in any other category except hentai. (C, H, P, O, R)
Harmony - Unique combinations of line work and watercolor used to convey deep emotion and profound artistry. (C, P, R)
Heroic - White knight saves the day. (C, R)
Industry Art - Original artwork from industry artists, comic artists and mangakas. (C, P, O)
Insanity - Irrational delirium, totally crazy. (C, R)
Joy - Extreme happiness. (C, R)
Male - Boys, men, guys, bishonen. (C, R)
Outfit - Best dressed, emphasis on clothes and costumes. (C, R)
Rage - Mad, angry, extreme agitation. (C, R)
Robot - Our mechanical friends. (C, R)
Romance - Kissing, hugging, cuddling, anything non-explicit. (C, R)
Shocked - Stunned, horrified, utter dismay. (C, R)
Sorrow - Tear-jerkers, sadness. (C, R)
Special Effect - Power bursts, transformation effects, airbrushing, etc. (C, R)
Tranquility - Characters who have found their inner peace. (C, R)
Vehicle - Takes you where you want to go. (C, R)
Villainous - Archenemies, evil scientists, meanies, wicked bad guys. (C, R)
OPTION Animated - Short sequences of animated artwork. (C, R)
OPTION Hentai - Sexually explicit & nude. All pairings welcome! (C, H, R)
OPTION Settei - Characters, items or scenery. Model cels are not allowed in any other category. (MC, R)
Now the one area where there's been some discussion is "Romance." A member caused some eyebrows to raise by submitting a cel of two guys that knowledgable collectors recognized as father and son. Of course, if you didn't know the series, you could see the cel as a john with an unusually ugly hooker, or, more favorably, as a yaoi moment. Still, one of the team suggested that we rename the category simply "Love." That might, however, be too broad, including not only the devotion of a child for a parent or sibling and vice versa, but also as that of a child for a beloved pet. (Not to mention that of Gollum for the Ring.)

So might we retain "Romance" as celebrating the emotions of two persons who are drawn to each other through physical passion (and the voters in Cephiro recently affirmed that this need not be limited to a man and a woman)? But add "Affection" as celebrating the equally important tenderness between two characters (man and woman, father and son, girl and older brother, kid and dog, cat, baby dragon, etc.?) who are not seeking a long-term physical relationship? [Biblical Greek was clearer on this front, distinguishing "eros" (physical love) from "agape" (sacrificial love), "philia" (altruism), and "storge" (natural love between family members). "Romance" would focus on eros, "Affection" on the other three.]

A second suggestion is to add an OPTIONAL category to be termed "Novel set-up." It would be a match of an original cel or celss and an unmatching background positioned together in any way the owner of the pieces sees fit to make an interesting or unique "dream" scene.

It would still follow Eligibility Rule #2 [the contestant must physically own both the cel(s) and the background] and Submission Rule # 10 [the images cannot be digitally modified or enhanced, except by combining two scans for a pan object]. Entrants would need to scan their cel and background together and not do Photoshopping or computer editing of any kind.

A final suggestion is to include a few unique categories for each contest, just to keep things lively. They need not be included each time, but would simply provide a once-off fresh angle, maybe in a facetious way. For instance, the 2010 contest included "Worst" cel, but this category was omitted (to my chagrin) in 2011. Others suggested are "End of the world" or "In a sticky situation." Others were proposed in a playful mode in this thread.

Others? And are there rules that need to be reconsidered?
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by zerospace »

I actually like the idea of changing "Romance" to "Love" or any other change that permits the inclusion of cels like the father/son one -- either to be judged against or separately from the old-fashioned "romance" cels. Together as "love" or separately as "romance" and "affection" -- either works. The only concern I might have is with the inclusion of another category, the potential issue would be with meeting the minimum number of entries. I would think that "love" would have a larger pool to draw from, as there seems to be a lot of cels out there that would fit under "affection" rather than "romance" ;).

I also like the idea of a random/perhaps unique optional category each year (or whenever the community thinks of a good one). I wouldn't be opposed to this. I'm not entirely sure about the "original setup" idea, as it might pose its own set of rule-related problems, but I can't see how it would hurt as an optional category.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by BuraddoRun »

sensei wrote:Others were proposed in a playful mode in this thread.
Ha! I like that thread! I think that if we go with that suggestion that it could be a really fun category(s), and we should come up with something(s) more creative than my 2 examples.

Regarding Romance and Affection, my vote would be to not separate the 2 but rather change it to the broader category Love. True, it might get weird with an entry of something like Scrooge McDuck swimming in his Money Bin, but I think that would just add to the variety. Like having many choices of brand of shirt to buy, voters will have many choices to choose from that best illustrates their idea of representation of love.
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." -Isaiah 1:18
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by HigurashiArchives »

zerospace wrote:
HigurashiArchives wrote:No problem, if you need help with anything just let me know. I can assist with a lot of different web technologies: PHP, Perl, MySQL, Javascript, AJAX, etc.
Didn't realize zerospace was on it already, definitely the better choice, hope I get to work with him I'd love to get some tips and pointers from someone who's been in the web development field so long.
I'm a "she" ... and feel free to PM me -- it appears we use the same languages, too -- PHP, MySQL, JS, ajax ;). JS is my bane -- just warning you. Anyone who knows me knows how much I loathe Javascript -- I play nice with it as much as possible, but there's something I hate so much about a programming language that's trying to read like english and constantly spewing stupid 'not defined' errors at me. Gah! :rollin Sorry ... it's just that I have a long & twisted history with Javascript.

I'm not making any serious changes to the awards site code this year (aside from plugging that little hole, which I've already done) -- I just don't have time. There's so many ways it should be cleaned up & vastly improved (I've considered making it database-driven, but I had really wanted it to be super-portable to even free hosting environments), but I'm in total catch-up mode on everything from the holidays. And I really need to finish the current update to my gallery software -- I've been promising an update to bulleta for at least 8 months now. *sigh* Last year was the first time I missed a yearly update to Meteor Galleries -- I'm almost ashamed to say that, but I suppose in the state it's in, it works quite well & isn't in absolute dire need. Ahh... always behind...

Anyways... I'm working on getting this year's site ready with the help of the graphic designers.

So umm... will there be any discussion on categories? Everyone's so quiet...
Sent you a pm. I can do whatever you need done. It should be interesting to work with a script that does not use a database.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by Yuri-chan »

I think the idea of renaming Romance to Love is good, though I prefer the name Romance, on the other hand, perhaps a new category of 'Family' would work? Like others have expressed it though, changing the name might broaden the category better. I also wouldn't mind seeing Worst return. :)

I did have a suggestion, odd as it may be, to make a separate category for all Opening, Ending and Eyecatch cels much the way Hanken and Harmony work with items allowed and judging rules. Owning some of those cels myself, I often find I have difficulty placing them in categories as they are so uniquely different. I have seen many more that seem difficult to place in others' galleries also. I do wonder if the idea would be better as optional or not though if it is considered to be added. Maybe it's not practical, but I thought I'd pop the idea out there nonetheless.

On the issue of original setups I agree with Zero, Optional category might be best for it if it gets added. Random unique categories are also an interesting idea. I can see where 'End of the World' or 'Sticky Situation' would bring fun entries in.

The Rules seem fine to me and in no need of change or revision. The other categories are fine also except that Shikishii seems to be missing once again. I actually like that category. ^.^
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