2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Area to post questions, comments, and discussions regarding this annual contest.
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animeobsessed
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by animeobsessed »

I like the idea of broadening Romance as well, Like Zerospace stated this category seems to be one that gets a lot of entries so it may be possible to have one for Romance and also one for Affection which would include family members.

I also like the idea of Sticky Situations. That one seems fun. I also like the idea of a category for Openings/Endings/Eyecatch.

The category I would like to see a better explanation or changed slightly is Tranquility. A majority of the entries have been of someone who looks like they are sieeping...I guess that is tranquil. Maybe it should be Relaxing or a more broad title as well.

Death was another one that was altered slightly in the past to include dying or seriously injured. Sometimes, there have been entries in the past that have been of a character stabbed but didn't die, if you know story line which can't be told in one image. May it could be "At Death's Door" which would include any of these.

Maybe it's time to change up some of the emotion categories and use Jealous or Terrified or Confused instead of repeating ones we have had for several years.

What about a new category for Conflict? Anime is full of this!

There's my two cents worth...
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by bulleta »

animeobsessed wrote: Death was another one that was altered slightly in the past to include dying or seriously injured. Sometimes, there have been entries in the past that have been of a character stabbed but didn't die, if you know story line which can't be told in one image. May it could be "At Death's Door" which would include any of these.
^ Ah! This is another category I forgot about. I agree with this completely. I've come across cels or sketches before in my collection that I've thought of entering, but didn't because I knew the character recovered.

The emotions could be changed up as well. I like the idea of something new rotating in. I don't really have a preference about which ones. ^_^
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

Here's a consideration with some of these suggestions, though. How much knowledge of the series should be required to determine if an entry is placed in the correct category?

1. If an entry is placed in the proposed "OP/ED/Eyecatch" category, must the contestant prove to someone on the Contest Team that the cel does appear in that show's OP/ED/Eyecatch animation? I'd be tempted to enter my Tonde Buurin "Statue of Liberty" cel -- but sadly the one place where the eyecatch animation was available for viewing has taken it down, and the eyecatch isn't included in the episodes now available on YouTube (the Latin American dub).

2. If an entry is placed in "Romance," must the contestant prove that the two are involved (or wish to become involved) in a relationship based on physical love? Is Platonic (but imaginatively torrid) love enough? Where would we draw the line in adjudicating when a cel goes in "Romance" and when it gets moved to "Affection"?

3. If an entry is placed in "Death," must the contestant prove that the character does not recover but stays dead? What about characters who become vampires or yurei, or (like Sakura's mom in CCS) get pink wings and return to pull the protagonist out of tight fixes?

My tendency as a simple-minded judge is to say that the image should speak for itself within the category and assume no knowledge of the series. It should look like someone who is either dead or at death's door, or like a couple who are romantically involved, or like someone who is enjoying a moment of tranquility, either through meditation or a much deserved night's sleep. That said, I do know that recognizing the context of a given cel as an important moment unavoidably influences voters' decisions.

As for the OP/ED/Eyecatch category, as much as I love my cels that fit this category, I think it would be difficult to verify on this end. Should we ask participants to accompany cels with a link to an available clip that includes the cel? Or a screen cap and timing information? And do we exclude cels that were designed for such a sequence but were not used for some reason (e.g., the many oddball "OP" cels from Tenshi ni Narumon?)
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by zerospace »

sensei wrote:My tendency as a simple-minded judge is to say that the image should speak for itself within the category and assume no knowledge of the series. It should look like someone who is either dead or at death's door, or like a couple who are romantically involved, or like someone who is enjoying a moment of tranquility, either through meditation or a much deserved night's sleep. That said, I do know that recognizing the context of a given cel as an important moment unavoidably influences voters' decisions.
I agree with this 100%. I don't see a need to over complicate things in such ways.
sensei wrote:As for the OP/ED/Eyecatch category, as much as I love my cels that fit this category, I think it would be difficult to verify on this end. Should we ask participants to accompany cels with a link to an available clip that includes the cel? Or a screen cap and timing information? And do we exclude cels that were designed for such a sequence but were not used for some reason (e.g., the many oddball "OP" cels from Tenshi ni Narumon?)
Again, I think this is just too much to deal with for the sake of a contest. If someone wishes to raise a dispute over whether or not a cel is an eyecatch or OP or ED, let that come up during an open viewing period of all the cels entered. If no one raises a fuss about any entries, then they should stand. Allow the community to police it's own awards, but go on the honor system for entering.

------------------

Somewhat on a side note: I think that "Romance" should be broadened into "Love" or "affection" for the sake of the length of the category list and the limited number of entries each person is permitted to have -- rather than splitting it into 2 categories, and thus opening up to the debate of whether or not a cel belongs in romance or affection. If we're going to keep expanding the list, then the number of entries permitted per person should also be expanded, as we're going to end up with a lot of categories on the brink of elimination, as seems to happen nearly ever year now. I enjoy seeing 10+ entries per category, rather than many niche categories with only 4 or 5 ....
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

zerospace wrote:
sensei wrote: Should we ask participants to accompany cels with a link to an available clip that includes the cel? Or a screen cap and timing information?
Again, I think this is just too much to deal with for the sake of a contest. If someone wishes to raise a dispute over whether or not a cel is an eyecatch or OP or ED, let that come up during an open viewing period of all the cels entered. If no one raises a fuss about any entries, then they should stand. Allow the community to police it's own awards, but go on the honor system for entering.
Sounds reasonable. I'll post a revised list of categories later today and then (if Zero and the others are ready to roll) move towards fine-tuning the website and suggesting a timetable. I think overall there is no major controversy that needs to be settled, and probably more feeling among the ranks that we should move ahead.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by bulleta »

I understand that people voting should just judge a cel with no knowledge of the series. But does that always happen? I sort of doubt it. I just want to broaden or simplify a couple categories so that if someone does go into it with this notion that "so and so didn't die! Who entered this! I wont vote for that!" that that's not as likely if "Injured" is included in the category name. I'm not for splitting romance and love, I think it's just too much.

Here's something to consider. Think of the categories that fill up. Male, Female, Group. The categories that are the most broad. The more niche categories we add, the more it pulls away from other niche categories. So Z is right, we'd need to increase the max # of entries in that case.

Otherwise, we're just arguing about a bunch of categories that are going to be cut because of low entries. :D
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

I think the consensus is to broaden "Romance" to include any intense display of affection, so I'm going to rename this "Love." If voters don't think an entry embodies the category, they can vote for a cel that they like better. But broadening the category at least gives a good cel a chance even if it does not portray a man and a woman of approximately equal age.

Can we just tweak the description of "Death" to include "mortally injured" even if the person, through medical or magical means, recovers?

Are we agreed to try out "OP/ED/Eyecatch" as a regular category, with Z's provision that such entries could potentially be challenged during the viewing period if they can't be shown to come from these special animations?

I'd like to add 2-3 "Random" categories (one-time, experimental, or occasional inclusions). Should they be optional? Otherwise they might tend to further spread out entries from the canonical categories. I may need to tweak the rules in this case.

Anything else? While I don't want to run roughshod over any member's preferences, I think the general sentiment is that we're ready to move on from dithering to getting the site ready.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by BuraddoRun »

I agree with Zerospace that the honor system is best, and that all members can raise potential disputes during the open viewing phase of the contest. And I agree with you, Sensei, that if a cel looks to fit the part (as far as things like Death/Mortally Wounded are concerned; not OP/ED/Eyecatch obviously) then it should be accepted. If a voter feels they can't vote for something because they recognize that the opposite happens in the actual show or whatever, then that's fine.

I'm all for broadening vs splitting on categories like Romance and Death.

Regarding the number of categories, maybe we should pick a cap and try to stick with that? Right now there are 29 categories plus 3 optional categories. For you veterans of the Awards, are there any existing categories that routinely get low participation? Are there any, to date, that have yet to have winners because they never get enough participants? Maybe we should think about dropping or replacing those. Are there any current categories that seem expendable, meaning that it wouldn't ruffle any feathers to replace them this year with something new? Maybe some of the emotion-or-adjective displaying categories like Tranquility or Shocked. I, too, would rather see a greater number of entries per category. Maybe, regardless of how many categories exist, we should allow for more entries than the current maximum for participants?

All that said, I'm sure, like you have stated, that most of us are probably ready to get the ball rolling on all of this. I guess we organizers and volunteers should look at Zerospace's task list again and offer to take a part, or Sensei, will you assign us tasks?
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

In 2011 (a contest that had fewer participants than usual) the following categories did not make minimum entries and were cut:

INDUSTRY ART
INSANITY
VEHICLE
OPTIONAL: SETTEI

So far as I can tell, all categories met minimum numbers in 2009 and 2010. I didn't check the sketch contests thoroughly, but it looks as if all the categories made minimums in 2010 and 2011

I'd say let's keep an eye on which ones are light in entries, but at the moment I don't think we have a clear problem. As someone noted in a previous contest, more categories mean more trophies, which is part of the fun of the event.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by sensei »

What think?
CATEGORIES:

(C) = Cel (H) = Hanken (MC) = Model Cel (O) = Other (P) = Painting (R) = Rilezu
Accessory - Emphasis on what the character is holding, using, swinging, playing, aiming. (C, R)
Action - Scenes of action, movement, motion. (C, R)
Background - No characters allowed. (C, P, R)
Children - Youth, babies, kids. (C, R)
Creature - Animals, monsters, pets, catgirls, demons. (C, R)
Cute - Adorable, precious, toothache inducing. (C, R)
Death - Characters on the verge of death, or those that really are dying or dead. (C, R)
Embarrassed - Blushing, mortified, awkwardness, total humiliation. (C, R)
Fan Art - Made by you or another artist. (C, P, O)
Female - The fairer sex. (C, R)
Funny - Laugh out loud moments. (C, R)
Group - Art of two or more characters. (C, R)
Hanken - Art used for merchandise or other non-production special circumstances. Hankens are not allowed in any other category except hentai. (C, H, P, O, R)
Harmony - Unique combinations of line work and watercolor used to convey deep emotion and profound artistry. (C, P, R)
Heroic - White knight saves the day. (C, R)
Industry Art - Original artwork from industry artists, comic artists and mangakas. (C, P, O)
Insanity - Irrational delirium, totally crazy. (C, R)
Joy - Extreme happiness. (C, R)
Love - Kissing, hugging, cuddling, any displays of affection, innocent or physical – just not explicit. (C, R)
Male - Boys, men, guys, bishonen. (C, R)
Outfit - Best dressed, emphasis on clothes and costumes. (C, R)
Rage - Mad, angry, extreme agitation. (C, R)
Robot - Our mechanical friends. (C, R)
Shocked - Stunned, horrified, utter dismay. (C, R)
Sorrow - Tear-jerkers, sadness. (C, R)
Special Effect - Power bursts, transformation effects, airbrushing, etc. (C, R)
Tranquility - Characters who have found inner peace or a welcome opportunity to unwind. (C, R)
Vehicle - Takes you where you want to go. (C, R)
Villainous - Archenemies, evil scientists, meanies, wicked bad guys. (C, R)
RANDOM Worst – Cels you wish you could unsee (C, R)
RANDOM In a Sticky Sitation – Character or characters between a rock and a hard place (C, R)
RANDOM OP/ED/Eyecatch – Cels used only in these special animated sequences (C)
.


OPTION Animated - Short sequences of animated artwork. (C, R)
OPTION Hentai - Sexually explicit & nude. All pairings welcome! (C, H, R)
OPTION Settei - Characters, items or scenery. Model cels are not allowed in any other category. (MC, R)
OPTION Novel Set-Up - Cel with an UNMATCHING background that creates an original image. The background must be an original production item (not photocopied or Photoshopped).
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by cutiebunny »

Not that I'm opposed to new categories being added, but what really is the judging criteria for OP/ED/Eyecatch? In almost every other category, you choose which item best represents its emotion, or the best, artistically, in the lot. But what do you really judge these bank cels on? Cuteness? Creativity? Amount of times used in the series? Overall ability to convey the tone of the series? We've had bank cels enterred into other categories before, so now, in addition to the ability to submit those to the other applicable categories, bank cels get their own category as well? Seems a bit redundant to me. I think there are some cels, like transformation cels, that should be considered for some kind of category (as they don't all fit into the "special effects" cateogry), but if you're going to have a OP/ED/Eyecatch category, I see no reason why that should not be extended to all bank cels.

Perhaps, if you're going to go with the OP/ED/Eyecatch category for this contest, possibly extend it to incorporate all bank cels?
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by Yuri-chan »

You've raised some good points Cutiebunny. Whenever I considered the category, I thought of it absolutely no different than Hanken and Harmony, which also have no true judging standard that I'm aware of. One just picks the one they like the best for whatever reason unless I'm mistaken. If Hanken can stand on it's criteria for so long, I don't see why the OP/ED/Eyecatch category can't do the same.

Bank cels are difficult. I was hesitant to include them in my suggestion because I was thinking of the flat episode standard (Opening, Ending, Eyecatches) and Bank cels could expand the category too much perhaps, maybe make it too complicated. It's true that the Bank cels have difficulty fitting in also. On the other hand, now that I think of it, perhaps Special effects as a small category can be renamed to accommodate the Bank cels. It might help broaden that category to get more entries and be a better contender; as I see it, they do have a similar judging and visual element.

If I may say so, I support the idea on how to handle the OP/ED/Eyecatches entries also. I didn't even consider how one would prove their authenticity if an issue developed. Maybe that's because there's never really been an issue with the Hankens, another category that could be subjective to that.

I like the way the categories sit now, though I do see a couple of things. Worst isn't going to be an optional category anymore? I kind of liked how it didn't add to the 5 entries. Also, I think accepting atleast Rilezu into OP/ED/Eyecatch is necessary to be included. I remember several Saiunkoku and other series having beautiful OP/ED shots from Rilezu. I'm not sure of Reproductions, if there is any even available through that.

All in all, this looks fantastic! I love the updated descriptions to some of the categories. In my opinion, they do help define them better.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by BuraddoRun »

I'm OK with adding bank cels to the special effects category. What Yuri-chan reasoned makes sense to me as well.

Concerning our RANDOM categories, maybe those should be like the OPTIONAL categories, in that they don't count towards the other regular ones. In fact, maybe they should be RANDOM OPTIONAL categories. We would probably get a lot of entries in those, which I think will be a lot of fun.

Also, if I may:
sensei wrote:What think?

OPTION Novel Set-Up - Cel or cels with an UNMATCHING background that creates an original image. The background must be an original production item (not photocopied or Photoshopped).
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by cutiebunny »

I don't think that bank cels should be added to special effects simply because they don't always apply. There are many bank cels where there are no special effect layers, either because they were done with a computer, it doesn't apply to the scene or the layer has been lost long ago.

Case in point - http://cutiebunny.rubberslug.com/galler ... mID=125323

It's a bank cel. But there's no special effects. Let's say I wanted to enter this in the awards. Where would I enter it? Sailor Moon is female, but I don't think that would be an acceptable category for this particular cel. Nor do I think that this cel would be a good fit in either Creature, Object, Action or Heroic. So where would I submit this?

The fact that of the matter is that the categories in the awards are not designed to cater to every cel/sketch out there. The categories are designed to cater to the majority of artwork out there, but not every item is going to be able to be submitted simply because some of them are so specialized that there are not enough people who own cels of that particular type. And some OP/ED/Eyecatch cels don't fit into other categories simply because they showcase artwork that, for whatever reason, does not fit any of the criteria. However, this is not to say that all OP/ED/Eyecatch cels do not fit anywhere - I enterred an OP cel of Sara from Tenshi ni Narumon several years ago and won the Female category with it.

If you do decide to go ahead with giving OP/ED/Eyecatch their own category, then they shouldn't be allowed to enter any other category. It's double dipping, and it hardly seems fair to say to owners of other types of unique artwork that they must submit them into a specialized category when the OP/ED/Eyecatch owners can submit into almost every category.
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Re: 2013 Cel Awards: A tentative start

Post by zerospace »

cutiebunny wrote:If you do decide to go ahead with giving OP/ED/Eyecatch their own category, then they shouldn't be allowed to enter any other category. It's double dipping, and it hardly seems fair to say to owners of other types of unique artwork that they must submit them into a specialized category when the OP/ED/Eyecatch owners can submit into almost every category.
Agreed. If OP/ED/eyecatch are to be given their own category, they cannot be allowed in any other, just like hankens and harmony cels.
cutiebunny wrote:I don't think that bank cels should be added to special effects simply because they don't always apply. There are many bank cels where there are no special effect layers, either because they were done with a computer, it doesn't apply to the scene or the layer has been lost long ago.
This, too. I'm not really for adding bank cels to special effect as it seems like an odd combination to me. I think it will make that category much more difficult to judge (not that some aren't difficult already), and it'd truly be like comparing apples to oranges.
cutiebunny wrote:The fact that of the matter is that the categories in the awards are not designed to cater to every cel/sketch out there. The categories are designed to cater to the majority of artwork out there, but not every item is going to be able to be submitted simply because some of them are so specialized that there are not enough people who own cels of that particular type. And some OP/ED/Eyecatch cels don't fit into other categories simply because they showcase artwork that, for whatever reason, does not fit any of the criteria. However, this is not to say that all OP/ED/Eyecatch cels do not fit anywhere - I enterred an OP cel of Sara from Tenshi ni Narumon several years ago and won the Female category with it.
YES. I think this is something that people like to forget ... not every cel will have a niche in which to be entered. Adding tons of niche categories each year (only to see many of them cut due to low entry counts) is silly. If more niche categories are added, then more entries per person must be allowed, as the niche categories tend to be the ones that are tougher to fit a cel to & thus receive fewer entries.
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