How should we treat Industry Art?

ReiTheJelly · Post by **ReiTheJelly** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:42 pm

This poll is to determine which shikishi, autographs and illustrations will be allowed in the SKETCH awards contest.

If people vote for option #2, Industry Art will most likely not be a category in the Cel Awards, as all pieces would be eligible for the Sketch Awards.

This poll will run for 7 days.

Post by **JWR** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:04 pm

I think this was decided in this thread
http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26985

All items in the "settei" catagory that are paper are allowed in the sketch awards reguardless of if they are colored or not.

My opinion as far as the Industry Arts section which was originally the "non anime" catch all of the cel awards, since comic art/original sketches are paper I would think that they should be only in the sketch awards. I could see a color and a B&W section if there would be enough entries in each to make it work.

ReiTheJelly · Post by **ReiTheJelly** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:03 pm

My apologies, but to me, settei are completely different from industry art.

Settei are character or item settings, such as:
http://redeye.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=290167

Whereas Industry art is not made for any purpose other than promotional:
http://cutiebunny.rubberslug.com/galler ... mID=296952

From reading the previous thread, it appeared to me to be asking whether or not colored settei which were not cels should be allowed in the cel awards. This is a subtle difference, asking whether or not Industry Art should be allowed in both competitions, or be limited to the Sketch Competition only.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:31 pm

I had to read the poll a few times to figure out the meaning. Perhaps it could have been clearer, such as "Black/White shikishi in sketch awards only", "All shikishi in sketch awards only", "Black/white shikishi in sketch, colored in cel awards", etc.

I, personally, would like to see black/white industry art(including shikishi) in the sketch awards and the colored industry art with the cels. I think that there is so much industry artwork out there that there could easily be enough entries.

The main reason as to why the sketches and cels were seperated was to give it its own place to shine. Colorful items draw people attention easier than those that are not colored, and the same could be said with industry art as well.

Settei, though, does not belong in industry art. It is its own seperate entity.

Post by **JWR** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:01 pm

I can understand the confusion.

When we polled about Shikishi what I took from it was that all plastic be it color or b&W would go in the Cel Awards and all paper items would go in the Sketch awards reguardless of being colored or not.

While Shikishi and Industy art are different catagories they still fall under the paper vs plastic debate.

A bit of background. The original catagory that became Industry art was "Non-Anime" and in it was the Disney and other American cels along with comic art and any other non cel based images such as shikishi's.

It was later descided to allow non anime cels in all catagories. There had been discussion about eliminating the catagory but since there were a lot of collectors that wished to be able to enter items in that catagory it remained and has been in both of the last sketch and cel awards.

irmgaard · Post by **irmgaard** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:58 pm

I hate to ask for a poll but...

I would like to know how people feel about putting shikishi,
which are sketches made for fans,
in the same category as manga / comic pages,
which are camera ready artwork...just like cels.

They are both on paper, but so are backgrounds...

Maybe it's just me, but I have trouble judging these against each other

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:45 pm

I'd want to see industry art in the Cel Awards so I'm voting #1. I just don't think people will associate the cel based shows as much with the sketch awards.

So I don't think it's a level playing field at all. I'd rather go for cel based shows or CG based shows. I don't like to lose a category in the Cel Awards as I like that much better.

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:46 am

kizu wrote:I'd want to see industry art in the Cel Awards so I'm voting #1. I just don't think people will associate the cel based shows as much with the sketch awards. So I don't think it's a level playing field at all. I'd rather go for cel based shows or CG based shows. I don't like to lose a category in the Cel Awards as I like that much better.

Just a question, kizu -- I'm not sure I follow you on why the playing field would be any less level if shikishii moved to the sketch awards instead of the cel awards. Are the two contests unequal? Is more weight to be given to the cel awards for some reason? I guess I just don't understand

. Or, are you just trying to say that it's not really fair to judge color shikishii against black & white, so the two should stay separate--each in the appropriate contest?

GuyvarIII · Post by **GuyvarIII** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:41 am

I canâ€™t vote in this poll, because I donâ€™t like either choice.

I donâ€™t like the section â€œIndustry Artâ€

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:13 am

I agree with GuyvarIII ... I'm not fond of the "Industry Art" classification either, if it were to encompass the former Comic/Manga category as well as shikishi. I'm of the opinion that Comic/Manga art is a form of production art more akin to a cel than a shikishi. I'm not opposed to shikishi and other non-production illustration art being grouped together in a category called... whatever you want to call it.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:48 pm

zerospace wrote:I agree with GuyvarIII ... I'm not fond of the "Industry Art" classification either, if it were to encompass the former Comic/Manga category as well as shikishi. I'm of the opinion that Comic/Manga art is a form of production art more akin to a cel than a shikishi. I'm not opposed to shikishi and other non-production illustration art being grouped together in a category called... whatever you want to call it.

"Paper art" ?

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:34 pm

@zerospace...

I didn't like either choice but I voted for #1... why? I don't like to lose a category to the sketch awards solely based on it's "paper" so it's should be in sketch awards...

I'd rather have a CG vs Cel series (in terms of industry art)... The reason sketch award came into being was that there are probably more sketch collectors now in this community and everything is now produced CG...
However an industry art that is entered to the sketch awards based on a cel show (which might be older) might not have it's supporters. For example I don't think of Rose of Versailles (insert whatever cel show you like) and think sketch awards... I think cel awards. I'm also not into the recent shows so I'm less likely to even look at sketch awards... The constituency who will vote will be very skewed if industry art for cel based series was only entered in sketch awards. I think both names (sketch and cel) for these awards are misnomers.

So my issue really is that, why does industry art have to be solely for sketch awards? I really don't see why when it's not like cels are being compared in the same category as sketches... I'd rather have Cel based series industry art separate from CG industry art. That way both awards and entries seem relevant.

Oh and of course this won't apply to comic art... I would say those should probably kept in the sketch awards. I think they probably should have their own category and kept in sketches. But I don't hold any strong opinions on that.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:30 pm

I don't think that seperating the sketch awards into CG and non-CG catagories will work. That creates a lot of additional work. And then, there are series like "Inuyasha" & "Pokemon" that have both CG & non-CG art. What, then, should we do in that event?

I don't see why we can't have industry art(shikishi, manga/comic pages, etc) or whatever you want to call it in both awards. No one is making a fuss about backgrounds being in the cel awards even though they're done on paper.

I'm all for as many awards as possible, and using the formats in place, I don't think that the ability to submit shikishi to both awards would create a significant amount of work for their organizers.

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:00 pm

@ Cutiebunny

Actually you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I'm not an advocate of a CG vs Cel awards. There's a more pervasive reason why it's sketch vs cel award (not simply limited to this industry art).

What I said is exactly what you described...

Industry Art should be allowed to exist in both awards. Industry art for cel based series and industry art for CG based.

Hope that is clear and not confusing.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:59 pm

kizu wrote: Industry art for cel based series and industry art for CG based.

So, shikishi from CG series would be in the sketch awards and shikishi from non-CG series would be in the cel awards?

Anime-Beta TNG

How should we treat Industry Art?

How should shikishi be entered into the SKETCH awards?

How should we treat Industry Art?