Sketch Awards Poll - Hybrid Sketches

[cutiebunny]

So, for lack of a better term, a 'hybrid' sketch is one where the artwork might have been generated on computer, printed out on studio paper and colored/modified by hand. As more productions go completely digital, the artwork is being done digitally as well.

The question is, do we want to allow hybrid sketches in the Sketch Awards and if they are allowed, should they be allowed in all applicable categories or should they have their own category?

I've created the poll to last 14 days as this could have a significant impact on this and future awards.

I'll also update the pros/cons in case anyone else comes up with some.

Pros -

- Allows for artwork from newer titles to compete.
- Possibly allows for more participation due to a larger pool of submittable artwork.


Cons -

- Greater possibility of 'cheating' by adding color/markings to copied artwork.
- Possibly allows for more participation due to a larger pool of submittable artwork.

[ReiTheJelly]

So, for lack of a better term, a 'hybrid' sketch is one where the artwork might have been generated on computer, printed out on studio paper and colored/modified by hand. As more productions go completely digital, the artwork is being done digitally as well.

Unless we generate a list of "all digitally constructed" series ahead of time, how are voters to know which entries fall into this acceptable category, and which entries are simply photocopies of hand-drawn work (and thus, cheating)?

In the past, I believe we have allowed hankens only to fit this bill, because many of them have minimal lines photocopied, and then an amazing amount of shading and coloring by hand...

[sensei]

Well, as the definitions are getting hazy, let's focus with an example:



This is an art board from Mushishi, Episode 26, cut 73. The base is a color photocopy (and the faint image of the character looking back over his shoulder is part of this copy base) but the sheet has been heavily elaborated, I believe by the series art director Takeshi Wake, who won the 2006 Tokyo Anime Fair award for his work on this series. The original contours of the the trees are part of the photocopy, but the heavy outlining, revision, and elaboration of them are in original India ink (or maybe a ultra-sharp marker pen). The highlighting is also original, and all the blue pencil work of additional foliage in the back is as well.

That fits the category in my mind: it is a "hybrid" work because the base used by the artist is a photocopy, not a blank sheet. Yet it clearly is an original piece of artwork, and if you visit the page in my gallery where it's displayed, you'll see from the screencap that the extra foliage became part of the final broadcast image. (I think these backgrounds were CGI, as they don't look like watercolor images and I've never seen any bgs from this series show up for sale.)

We probably make the decision harder for ourselves by talking about whether a checkmark on an entirely photocopied sheet makes it "original." The issue is whether a visually impressive and original artwork can be created on top of a studio photocopy. Clearly it can, and the integrity of series like Mushishi demonstrates that.

[ReiTheJelly]

The issue is whether a visually impressive and original artwork can be created on top of a studio photocopy. Clearly it can, and the integrity of series like Mushishi demonstrates that.

For me, the issue is the fact that it becomes increasingly difficult to tell with online scans, what is original and what is photocopy. When we start introducing hybrid art, the line becomes even more vague. I'm not saying it has no artistic value (I own several pieces myself); but I am saying that this type of art is best seen (and understood) in person. From your scan alone, I could not definitively say what was copied and what wasn't.

[zerospace]

The issue is whether a visually impressive and original artwork can be created on top of a studio photocopy. Clearly it can, and the integrity of series like Mushishi demonstrates that.

For me, the issue is the fact that it becomes increasingly difficult to tell with online scans, what is original and what is photocopy. When we start introducing hybrid art, the line becomes even more vague. I'm not saying it has no artistic value (I own several pieces myself); but I am saying that this type of art is best seen (and understood) in person. From your scan alone, I could not definitively say what was copied and what wasn't.

I honestly don't care if hybrid sketches are allowed in this year's (or future) awards, but the comments here -- especially sensei's -- brought an interesting thought to mind: why does it really matter if a portion of a sketch is copied? In essence, the copied portion was also studio-produced and hand-drawn by someone and no matter what the process used to complete the final piece, it is still production artwork. So if it's production artwork, why exclude it simply because part of it is work that was copied for the purpose of producing the piece you see? Since this is a fairly common process that studios use during production on CG series, I have a hard time saying that these pieces should just be left out or stuffed into their own category to be judged against one another on an arbitrary basis. After all, the sketch awards were born because of the move by studios to CG techniques. Excluding one technique they use in that process seems rather silly to me.

And, considering that we are all taking each other at our word that the artwork submitted is real and original (as Rei pointed out -- from sensei's scan, how can you even tell that part of it is copied?) -- why argue over details like this when they cannot truly be enforced anyways?

Also, IMHO, a hybrid category all its own would be about as fun to judge as hanken or comic or any of the other categories that have such broad entrance criteria. Those always end up being the "pick the one you like most for whatever reason you can think of" categories for me when voting.

Just my two yen, of course .

[sensei]

I might only note that Rei's comment goes for nearly all forms of anime art. We take on trust the fact that the scans submitted are undoctored images of original art held in the participant's collections. But it would hardly be beyond the capabilities of someone experienced with Photoshopping to create a bogus cel or sketch image from a high-quality screencap or from an image saved from a dealer's scan of an item sold on Mandarake or Yahoo Japan and submit it in the contest. The organizers don't have the capabilities of making surprise visits to participants to make them produce the original for authentication. We simply trust each other. IIRC, the only real trouble has been a participant who unwisely but ignorantly violated a rule by entering with a scan of an item s/he had previously sold to another collector.

If the First Prize were a gazillion dollars or a free trip to the Osamu Tezuka museum in Takarazuka, together with a complimentary night of pleasure with the actress portraying Dilandau in that night's theatrical production of A Girl in Gaia,, then I'd say caution was justified. But with the prize being a digital trophy and the penalty for doing something iffy being a free week of flames on this forum, then I would say the balance tips slightly toward including the category.

Just my 50 yen (I'm feeling richer than zero today).

[Cordelia]

Everyone has made good points. On one hand, hybrid sketches are technically still production artwork and can stand up on their own, sometimes trumping a full original work in the beauty department. However, I would have an issue with a hybrid sketch that is say 95% copied competing on equal footing with a fully hand-drawn piece, esp if there is no way of telling exactly through scans.

Since we are on new ground here and hybrid sketches are in the minority in most of our sketch collections, I would like to try having a new hybrid sketch category. We can always amend the rules next year depending on what happens this year. Like what sensei has pointed out, it's not exactly the Oscars or Pulitzer

[glorff]

One of the policies for all of the previous competitions here has always been that the person submitting the piece must own the piece of art. Since a substantial part (whatever was copied) is probably owned by someone else it seems that unless a member owns both parts that it would not be his or hers to submit. (Something like Setti copies that were colored.)

[iceman57]

Why not simply remain it in the final validation of submitted artworks ?
Sensei's pictures is definitively an handwritten art with more that two lines and a signature on it.
Honestly if there is "true" hand work on art and not just a random shot done in 2 seconds during an autograph session, that fits "handwritten art".
Rest would be done by people's votes.

[sensei]

One of the policies for all of the previous competitions here has always been that the person submitting the piece must own the piece of art. Since a substantial part (whatever was copied) is probably owned by someone else it seems that unless a member owns both parts that it would not be his or hers to submit. (Something like Setti copies that were colored.)

By the same token, as the trace lines on the back of a cel are imprinted using a special photocopy machine using the douga as the original, then no cel could be entered into the Beta cel contest unless the participant also has the douga.

We could easily get ourselves into logical handcuffs here: I'd say leave it to the discretion of participants and voters. My sense is that otherwise some very interesting pieces of animation art could be disqualified simply because some portion of the sheet of paper on which the artist worked was a photocopy. Obviously submissions in this category would be judged on the extent to which the artist customized the image rather than on the quality of the art that was photocopied.

[animeobsessed]

...Also, IMHO, a hybrid category all its own would be about as fun to judge as hanken or comic or any of the other categories that have such broad entrance criteria. Those always end up being the "pick the one you like most for whatever reason you can think of" categories for me when voting.

Just my two yen, of course .

I agree with the rest, but want to focus on this statement. All of these categories that don't have a specific criteria end up being judged more on popularity or which is the most colorful, etc. than anything else. It's the same discuss as repro and rilezu categories for cels. It's very hard to judge. I really don't want one more category like this. If you want to include "hybrids, then include it in the appropriate category and don't worry about whether part is a xerox copy or else leave them out completely. I can go either way, but don't make a separate category.

[klet]

So, for lack of a better term, a 'hybrid' sketch is one where the artwork might have been generated on computer, printed out on studio paper and colored/modified by hand. As more productions go completely digital, the artwork is being done digitally as well.

Does anyone have any examples of artwork like this? How do we know it wasn't hand drawn, copied, and then the copy colored or modified by hand?

Modifying copied layouts has been a tradition for years. The layouts are copied, and then the cel portions are colored on the copy, and the copy is sent out to the studio who does the background. That way, the background artists knows which portions are meant to be cel, and which they have to create. What's the difference between these modifications and ones made on more recent series? Recent series that are supposedly made on the computer, then printed out, and colored?

How are we going to enforce limits onto what constitutes a "hybrid" sketch and what constitutes a copy? For example, I would not mind seeing that sketch sensei posted in the contest. It obviously has original artwork that is modifying the copy. But what about this one?

http://www.rubberslug.com/user/4c6c7201 ... ayout2.JPG

It's a copy. But the colored pencil is original. And it is technically modifying the layout--adding the shadows on the background. But I'd probably be a little peeved to see it in a contest, even alongside sensei's layout.

So, how about this one?

http://misfit.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=219719

Another copy. But more modification! The railing to the right is all original. Does that qualify it? Once again, probably not something I'd enter.

But what about all those copies (or printouts, I guess, if that's really how they're being made now) that only have production instructions? Like, cel portions scribbled on, or a note in the top corner. Where is the line being drawn? You could argue that all drawing is merely instruction to others--at the sketch level, that's certainly true.


Final question: Can you tell which of the following is 100% original? Don't read the comments! That's cheating!

http://misfit.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=219718
http://misfit.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=219593
http://misfit.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=219211
http://misfit.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=219207
http://misfit.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=218769

I personally think it's pretty easy . . . but maybe it isn't on newer stuff? I still want to see example from newer shows.

[cutiebunny]

I guess the ayes have it. So, we will include a hybrid sketch category into the Anime Beta sketch awards this year. I suppose if it works out or if more current production titles only release hybrid artwork, it's something that could be expanded upon at a later date.

Yes, I know it's not the most 'fun' category to judge. I'd like to put a stipulation on entries in that category that there must be a 'significant' amount of original artwork on the sheet of paper. I don't just want to see a squiggle line of color. Of course, there's no way for me to verify that there's a significant amount of original art present, but, it's not like we're talking about the cash money prizes either.

So, right now, I'm in a holding pattern as the person designing the website states that they won't have any free time to work on the website until early August. I guess that works out in a way, as there are many members here that attend AX, Otakon and other conventions that occur during the summer period.

[Joost]

You can say its me :p
I'll do my best ^_^

[iceman57]

50% Xerox, 50% Pencil, 100% Serious stuff !