Have I been out of touch or is this a common thing now?

kamidake · Post by **kamidake** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:39 pm

I watched this auction on Mandarake end this morning:
http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/item ... 0090100003

And then saw this auction pop up on YJ:
http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b100228417

I'm not imagining things right? They're both the same cel right? o_O

LLslickD · Post by **LLslickD** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:41 pm

Yup exactly the same, number tape mark near it, the same cel.

killer.jellyfish · Post by **killer.jellyfish** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:44 pm

whoa... not to sound stupid or anything, but how does that work?

gundamx2 · Post by **gundamx2** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:53 pm

Hmm, that seems very shady, and I've actually been wondering about Mandarake's methods for a while.

I guess what bothers me most about Mandarake's auction system is that I can't see who the highest bidder is. Without being able to see that, couldn't someone within Mandarake be boosting their own auction to get the highest price possible and be able to get away with it?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm only talking about their bidding system. If we're talking about anything else, Mandarake is fine since I received everything I bought from them (not liking the fees and the must have EMS shipping though

)

So, for what the beta person pointed out in the first post, it would seem like Mandarake didn't get the price they desired and perhaps even won the auction themselves, which is why they proceeded with auctioning it on yhj at a higher starting price?

What does everyone else think?

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Tue May 12, 2009 7:13 pm

I thought Mandarake tried to sell it for the other person, but I can't remember the details of what someone said about this a long time ago.

Some people also seem to be selling their stuff off from Mandarake, but perhaps I'm mistaken. That's just the impression I got from the repeated auctions that I've run across.

kamidake · Post by **kamidake** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:13 am

My first thought was that the high bidder from Mandarake immediately put the cel back on the market with a hefty mark up. I guess it's technically theirs, but the auction JUST ended, it's kind of too soon don't you think? o_O Anybody had any transactions with the YJ seller moon_1974_2008 before? Now I'll probably be reluctant to buy anything from the person...

Captain Haddock · Post by **Captain Haddock** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:20 am

Likely the case kamidake, I've seen things on ebay end up on dealer sites before so it's not uncommon.

funshine · Post by **funshine** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:30 am

i'd think it was probably the winner putting it on yj. i've seen cels on mandy end up on ebay quite often (at least i'm pretty sure it's the same cel. i don't get all technical and look at numbers but i'm like 99% sure it's the same) so it wouldn't be surprising to see it happen with the cel going to yj instead.

jenn-b · Post by **jenn-b** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:55 am

Heh...this is one of my biggest pet peeves. The winning bidder obviously bid only to resell. I've seen the same sort of turn-around on YJ!, EBay, as well as dealer sites. It's extremely frustrating. However, if I had really wanted the items the first go-around, I would have bid on them. I'm hoping that they get stuck with the item. Especially if they never wanted it in the first place.

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:33 am

I get enjoyment seeing resellers (who-buy-items-only-to-resell-and-not-for-themselves) get stuck with a large number of items that they can't resell until they drop the prices.

Don't feed the trolls.

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Wed May 13, 2009 10:01 am

jenn-b wrote:Heh...this is one of my biggest pet peeves. The winning bidder obviously bid only to resell. I've seen the same sort of turn-around on YJ!, EBay, as well as dealer sites. It's extremely frustrating. However, if I had really wanted the items the first go-around, I would have bid on them. I'm hoping that they get stuck with the item. Especially if they never wanted it in the first place.

Same here. I go out of my way to avoid these resellers. As Keropi said, "don't feed the trolls".

Cenbe · Post by **Cenbe** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:15 pm

Well, I've got to say a little something here in defense of sellers and dealers everywhere, though I'm not one myself. There's nothing reprehensible in the least about buying something to resell at a profit. This is what makes the world go 'round in practically all businesses. Whether it's goods or services of any kind, the whole idea for the purveyor is to maximize their profit.

I've bought many things over the years from dealers and resellers and am always grateful for their services and quite willing to compensate them for their expertise and hard work. Dealing in any kind of collectible is a very tough and volatile business. It's driven by fads and fashions, even at the highest levels (high-end paintings and other fine art objects). Depending of course on what's being sold, sometimes just a few good sales can make the difference between a profitable year and one that you'd just as soon forget. For many kinds of collectibles, (and the more obscure cels and drawings could sometimes fall into this category), the market is so thin that the only way you can build any kind of meaningful collection is to establish good relationships with dealers. Their services can be invaluable, so don't begrudge them just compensation for their efforts. It's surely at least as honorable a profession as, say, hedge fund management.

Sure it's frustrating as a collector to lose an auction to a dealer and then see that cel pop up somewhere else at a higher price. But all that means really is that the two of you disagreed on the ultimate market price of the object. The dealer thought there was room for them to profit and you thought the price was too high for your collection. The dealer may be mistaken, and then will have to eat it. Nothing evil or morally wrong with that. They all make mistakes; the best ones absorb it quickly, learn from it and move on. If they make too many, they won't be in business very long. Certainly, be it dealer or collector, the owner of an object has no obligation whatsoever to provide you with that object at a price you think is fair. Your estimation of value could just as easily be mistaken as well.

Now I'm not saying that unethical practices don't occur and that dealers are the white knights of the collectibles world. I think partially the perceived shadiness of the profession comes from the fact that dealers rely somewhat on the misfortune or ignorance of others. Auntie Em has to get rid of her Louis the Whatever snuffbox quickly to pay Uncle Clem's funeral expenses. She doesn't want to or know how to deal with Sotheby's, so takes a bit of a price hit selling it to a local dealer who does. A Japanese salaryman loses his job, so contemplates selling the Totoro cels that his dad bought for him as a boy 20 years ago. Does he try to sell on Yahoo or Mandarake himself with maybe not very many collectors paying attention that week? Or does he take a little less money and sell it to a dealer who then assumes that risk?

In the case of the cel cited, the buyer apparently perceived a price discrepancy between what collectors were willing to pay that week and what he or she thought the cel was worth. More power to them if they can profit from that observation; a quick turn-around makes it a viable deal for them. I certainly wouldn't wish them ill simply for participating in the auction process in an entirely legitimate way. Now, shill bidding and other price manipulation practices are I'm sure more pervasive than many realize, but I don't think that's operative here. That's why it's so important to do your own research and evaluation to the best of your ability. After all, you're the ultimate arbiter of value for yourself.

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:56 pm

I usually find it more annoying when I win the auction and the reseller-only seller came in second.

When I'm able to bid my max and still lose it doesn't feel that bad since I expect to lose every auction I bid in anyway. It's just like losing an auction to anyone else. If they wanted to pay that large an amount they are welcome to it. Just beat me fair and square and all is good.

kamidake · Post by **kamidake** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:01 pm

jenn-b wrote:Heh...this is one of my biggest pet peeves. The winning bidder obviously bid only to resell. I've seen the same sort of turn-around on YJ!, EBay, as well as dealer sites. It's extremely frustrating. However, if I had really wanted the items the first go-around, I would have bid on them. I'm hoping that they get stuck with the item. Especially if they never wanted it in the first place.

Same here. If I had wanted that cel I would have bid on it from Mandarake. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing what this person is doing. It's one thing to purchase something from a not so publically known place and sell it to the masses for a profit. That in a way, is doing us all a favor by making available what otherwise wouldn't be. But from an auction site to another auction site actually seems like bad business sense then just trying to turn a profit.

beatrush · Post by **beatrush** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:25 am

This is a very good example of what I think people are trying to get at

http://cgi.ebay.com/Anime-Cel-Nausicaa- ... tsupported

This was on YJ a day or two ago and ended under I think $150 and now its on ebay for $1200