suspicious auction, need help making sense of it.

theultimatebrucelee · Post by **theultimatebrucelee** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:29 pm

This morning I've received a notice from SMJ that I've been out bidded on a auction, but hours later I received another notice that I've win the auction! Apparently, the seller decided to cancel the highest bidder's bid and so I am now the highest bidder. However, taking a look at the detailed bid history, my bid is times higher than the now second highest bidder's bid...this all seems very suspicious to me. the way I can make sense of it, the seller used a third party/different ID to jack up the bid because he was unsatisfied about the highest bid being so low. So my question would be: since the highest bidder's bid is canceled, why isn't all of his bids attempts canceled as well leaving the winning bid only slightly higher than the second bidder's bid and not my max bid? do you think perhaps the seller has used a YJA loophole in order to get more profit?

http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r83210353

Post by **JWR** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:51 pm

That could possible be a case as you suspect of "shill" bidding but unlike Ebay I am not sure if you have any recourse dealing with YJ. I suggest you contact your deputy to see if anything can be done before the deputy pays the seller.

I do not think you will be able to cancel the bid for I would not believe the deputy would be willing to get a non payment strike on it's feedback so all you can do is pay it and then remember the seller's ID and avoid any further auctions they put out.

teggacat · Post by **teggacat** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:57 pm

yes it does seem wrong, the winning bid should have been 6000Y the way the bid history page looks, JWR is right, all you can really do is contact your deputy and see what they think about the situation. Keep us posted what/why.

Animechaos · Post by **Animechaos** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:24 pm

I don't think it was shill bidding. For whatever reason the seller canceled our bids and 3 others as well. It sounds like a seller that should be avoided in the future.

Post by **sensei** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:54 pm

Which seller? I'd be suspicious as well, as I've seen some very odd bidding on YJ in the past: bidding that goes up 500 y at a time until it ties the reserve bid ... then stops and lets the earlier bid win, for instance.

Animechaos · Post by **Animechaos** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:03 pm

neojun555 is the seller.

Based on his actions they just may not have wanted to sell it at the price they had listed. It's been relisted with a starting bid of 18,000 yen here:
http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r83526159

Post by **sensei** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:39 am

OK, so tubl's bid was cancelled also? That would make sense, while cancelling only the bids higher than his would not.

theultimatebrucelee · Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:57 pm

At the time of my post, only the highest bidder was canceled leaving my max bid which made it look like JWR's explained case. now that everything is canceled and action relisted, it all worked out I guess. I still wonder if there is a loophole for shill bidding on YJA where seller can jack up the price with third party ID to reveal max bid of other bidders then cancel the third party's highest bid only.

Post by **JWR** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:27 pm

theultimatebrucelee wrote:At the time of my post, only the highest bidder was canceled leaving my max bid which made it look like JWR's explained case. now that everything is canceled and action relisted, it all worked out I guess. I still wonder if there is a loophole for shill bidding on YJA where seller can jack up the price with third party ID to reveal max bid of other bidders then cancel the third party's highest bid only.

I have experienced having auction be bidded up in 100yen bids as many as 20+ times till it took me up to my max but then stopped not passing my bid so no bid retraction.

I talked to my Deputy but nothing could be proved or done and I at least did get the artwork though for a bit more than I would have liked to.

Animechaos · Post by **Animechaos** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:01 pm

Lot of times that's just someone "stepping up" an auction. Trying to get it for minimum price without making a large bid. We see that a lot.

The most tell tale sign of a shill bidder would be the same "stepping up" process, but they eventually get the high bid. Then their last bid is magically canceled.

Post by **JWR** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:11 pm

Animechaos wrote:Lot of times that's just someone "stepping up" an auction. Trying to get it for minimum price without making a large bid. We see that a lot.

The most tell tale sign of a shill bidder would be the same "stepping up" process, but they eventually get the high bid. Then their last bid is magically canceled.

I would hope thats the case but then it has happened too many times that the last bid made matches my max bid (Tie goes to he who 1st places the bid) and stops when going one more bid increment would win the auction. This has happened not just when I have max bid round numbers (IE 20K yen) but also with odd bids like once I max bid and won at 9335 yen. That auction was "walked up" from op bid of 1500 yen.

theultimatebrucelee · Post by **theultimatebrucelee** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:37 pm

just got reply from SMJ that the seller was indeed shill bidding, as first suspected and has been reported. I also remember my max bid being matched a few times then I win by defult...those all happened on reletively higher profile auctions. I just thought those are accidents where bidder decided that their max bid is too high and just stopped.

D123 · Post by **D123** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:30 am

theultimatebrucelee wrote:just got reply from SMJ that the seller was indeed shill bidding, as first suspected and has been reported. I also remember my max bid being matched a few times then I win by defult...those all happened on reletively higher profile auctions. I just thought those are accidents where bidder decided that their max bid is too high and just stopped.

I’ve recently won an auction that I’ve felt was “shilled”

that or the bidder was just being spiteful

Sorry to hear this lee

theultimatebrucelee · Post by **theultimatebrucelee** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:26 pm

I hope the other bidder didn't jack up too much on your auction. it all worked out for me since it didn't cost anything...I can't blame the seller for trying to get the most out of his stuff, just inconvenience for me since I'm using proxy and exchange rate. I wonder if theres a way where we can just create accounts to bid on auctions ourselves and that snipe bid wouldn't get a 5 minute extension.

D123 · Post by **D123** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:54 pm

theultimatebrucelee wrote:I hope the other bidder didn't jack up too much on your auction.

Oh YEAH! To my maximum of 30,000yen on the dot

he kept inching it up

I kinda wish I could go back … I think it may have been another stupid move on my part

theultimatebrucelee wrote:I can't blame the seller for trying to get the most out of his stuff, just inconvenience for me since I'm using proxy and exchange rate. I wonder if theres a way where we can just create accounts to bid on auctions ourselves and that snipe bid wouldn't get a 5 minute extension.

I hear you on that but why couldn’t they just start it at the price they wanted to get for it?

Oh yes! I wish there was no time extension, sometimes it’s a blessing but mostly it’s a curse I could have probably won the auction for much less if it wasn’t for the thing

Anime-Beta TNG

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