Help me understand this bidding style?

[Killua]

Deputies that don't allow internal bidding actually end up costing you more. Think about a couple scenarios:

This is why I maintain accounts at two different deputies: one that allows internal bidding, and one that doesn't. If I really am 100% set on getting a particular item, I'll use the latter, and if it doesn't matter as much, I'll use the former. If someone already stakes out my piece on the latter I'll just use the other deputy.

[teppy]

3) 2 people using the same service via "internal bidding".
--Since bids are tracked internally the price of the auction itself doesn't go up, but most services charge a internal bid fee. That fee is generally much less than what the price would have gone up to. But also, from our experience, these internal "bidwars" are very rare. However when they do happen we've seen huge differences in price and savings to the customers. Very recently there was an item that sold for over 2 million+ yen from 2 deputy services going at it. If both those bidders used the same deputy service, the price never would have got that high and the winner would have saved quite a large sum.

Interesting. I find that for a lot of stuff I'm interested in, internal bidding happens quite often - and is usually the norm. Again, this is just my experience.

Regarding the contention that if an internal bid war develops on a deputy, the actual auction price doesn't go up and there's only the internal bid fee to deal with - I think this is somewhat hazardous and misleading. It is not unusual, in my experience, to see an item on YJ where there are many "bids" in the "number of bids" field, but the price is still quite low and hasn't been officially bid up. This, when coupled with a deputy username on the bid, is most likely due to internal bids which registers on YJ as the one bidder username upping their initial bid. That the number of bids may be much higher without the auction price officially moving up can be an invitation to shill bidders everywhere that they can safely push the price of the auction up with a lower risk of accidentally becoming the high bidder on the item. Thus negating or lessening the "cost savings" of winning an auction against an internal deputy bidder.

[Kasi]

Thank you all for your thoughts, that helps me understand it a little better.
I never would have thought there were so many people using this technique, it's really frustrating! My last auction was extended for over an hour too.
I always think to myself "whoever is willing to pay the most, wins regardless" which is why I simply just put in my highest max without worrying about timing or anything. Maybe I need to rethink this since there seems to be more games going on in the process! I was thinking some of these bidders were getting frustrated they could never counter my first bids.

[Animechaos]

Interesting. I find that for a lot of stuff I'm interested in, internal bidding happens quite often - and is usually the norm. Again, this is just my experience.

It may actually seem like an internal bidwar. We only count it when the auction closes with 2 opposing SMJ users going head-to-head. If a 3rd party bids in the mix it doesn't really count since once we're outbid, the "internal bidding" is completely negated. That might be different with other services, but we only count it if you have to outbid another SMJ user to win. Otherwise it's just not fair to tack on more fees since the customer didn't benefit from it.

I think this is somewhat hazardous and misleading. It is not unusual, in my experience, to see an item on YJ where there are many "bids" in the "number of bids" field, but the price is still quite low and hasn't been officially bid up. This, when coupled with a deputy username on the bid, is most likely due to internal bids which registers on YJ as the one bidder username upping their initial bid.

Most commonly that happens on very low priced auctions, ones that start at 1 yen. We see that a lot, but it's not necessarily what you think. YHJ has a little 100x rule. Meaning you can't bid over 100 times the current bid. So ones that start at 1 yen have to be "stepped up" a little before bidding can get serious.

That the number of bids may be much higher without the auction price officially moving up can be an invitation to shill bidders everywhere that they can safely push the price of the auction up with a lower risk of accidentally becoming the high bidder on the item. Thus negating or lessening the "cost savings" of winning an auction against an internal deputy bidder.

Something like this right?
http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/169314424

That's more of a way for the seller to get their item listed high when people search by # of bids, making the item seem very popular. Actual shill bidding is very rare. You can check the bid history logs and you can see it's pretty obvious what they're doing.

[teppy]

I think this is somewhat hazardous and misleading. It is not unusual, in my experience, to see an item on YJ where there are many "bids" in the "number of bids" field, but the price is still quite low and hasn't been officially bid up. This, when coupled with a deputy username on the bid, is most likely due to internal bids which registers on YJ as the one bidder username upping their initial bid.

Most commonly that happens on very low priced auctions, ones that start at 1 yen. We see that a lot, but it's not necessarily what you think. YHJ has a little 100x rule. Meaning you can't bid over 100 times the current bid. So ones that start at 1 yen have to be "stepped up" a little before bidding can get serious.

That the number of bids may be much higher without the auction price officially moving up can be an invitation to shill bidders everywhere that they can safely push the price of the auction up with a lower risk of accidentally becoming the high bidder on the item. Thus negating or lessening the "cost savings" of winning an auction against an internal deputy bidder.

Something like this right?
http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/169314424

That's more of a way for the seller to get their item listed high when people search by # of bids, making the item seem very popular. Actual shill bidding is very rare. You can check the bid history logs and you can see it's pretty obvious what they're doing.

Again, only speaking from my experience, I'm referencing auctions for anime cels - e.g. one of a kind products, not CDs or something where more than one exists. And, no, those auctions where I observe multiple bid counts but only one deputy bidder are not as low as 1 yen - they are at the starting price for the cel which is could be anything really, 4,500 or 10,000 - whatever the opening bid is...

[graymouser]

I will have to say that my experience with internal bid wars is that they happen quite frequently. Although I don't keep statistics on it, I am going to guess that about 1 out of 5 or 6 auctions I participate in involves some sort of internal bidding, and over 90% of them are snipes/snipe attempts. Like teppy I mainly bid on cels, so our experiences are going to be skewed differently from people who are buying other types of items.

[Animechaos]

A majority of internal bids we do see are mostly on cels, so I suppose that makes sense. Over time that has really decreased along with cel collecting as a whole though. The vintage gems that do pop up do still draw plenty of collectors notice. Nothing like in the past though.