And we survived

[Keropi]

Thanks for posting that JWR.

It's funny how many things you take for granted these days. Some things you don't even recall until they are brought up. I mean seriously. There weren't any inexpensive VCRs until the early 1980s. So back in the mid-1970s if you missed seeing a movie during its run in the movie theater you might have to wait several years before you could see it again (and that would be on regular TV). I heard the rumor when Star Wars was in the theater in 1977 that it "might be eight to ten years before Star Wars would be shown on regular TV" because George Lucas didn't want it to be. That's one of the reasons we had to see Star Wars in the theater a bunch of times (me: fourteen times) - because there wasn't much hope of seeing it for a long time after its run.

Of course we had no way of recording TV shows either. If you missed it, you had to wait several weeks for the rerun. Miss the rerun and you may never see that episode again.

Water was not something people drank except out of large office upside down bottle dispensers. If we wanted to drink distilled water at our house we had to buy one of those big bottle dispensers to go along with it. If you went to a fast food place and asked for water they would give you an evil look and often charge you 25 cents for it to try to disuade you from asking for it again. You were considered a nuisance.

My parents had to defrost their freezer every few months because the ice would build up on the inside of it. When that happened they had to take all the food out of the freezer and chip away the inches of ice completely around the inside that had built up inside of the freezer.

The microwave oven was a marvelous invention to us when it first came out. Before then we had to heat everything over a stove or stick it in the oven (often having to pre-heat the oven before using it). It was easy to overcook stuff on that way.

On the positive side though:

Our smog in Los Angeles is much improved compared to the mid 1970s. Anyone recall the pain in the lungs people would get from breathing the smog back then?

[RoboFlonne]

My parents had to defrost their freezer every few months because the ice would build up on the inside of it. When that happened they had to take all the food out of the freezer and chip away the inches of ice completely around the inside that had built up inside of the freezer. -Keropi-

I still do that!

[dude_moose]

I've seen the terror how things are changing first hand. My highschool BANNED dodgeball! wtf!! I was a geek and sucked at it, but I still loved dodgeball! Who doesn't!?!

When I was a kid growing up in the 90's, computers still sucked (actually, I knew way more about DOS then than I do now..), so me and my friends spent most of our time playing outside in the great outdoors, climbing trees, swordfighting with sticks, whittling with REAL pocketknives, using our own imaginations to make fantasy worlds with real economies, running around chasing each other, tying knots, building stuff... Ahh, those were the days.

I think parents need to (re)learn how to discipline their children. It seems like many parents let their kids take control of them, when it should be the other way around. Being there for them is especially important. But smothering them and bending to their every will is deadly.

I agree with bluehaven that they've taken the competitiveness out of childhood, the one thing that really makes kids strong. Why should any student have any ambition for academic success if everyone on honor roll gets to be a valedictorian, or if every student in the class gets an award certificate, even if it's for "most improved attitude" or "best hygiene." That's not making everyone feel special, that's making everyone feel homogeneous.

Actually it means we'll be speaking spanish soon.

Hola como esta? Dos cervesas por favor. Donde etsa el bano?

Eeto... supeingo wa zenzen wakarimasen nee.

[Baakay]

I resemble those remarks

Me too.

Gawd... has it actually change that much?? O_o

Guess so...

Seriously, I used to spend most of my free time either on my bike, at the library, or in the lake. There were 3 TV channels -- four, part of the time, if you counted PBS. We got cartoons on Saturdays. Period. And in our house, anyway, these were in black and white until I was, oh, maybe sixth grade or so?

And. um. As Glorff will be able to attest, it wasn't a matter of not even having cheap VCRs... there wasn't even such a thing as an audio cassette until we were almost in our teens. I had fun with reel-to-reel tapes

Our cars had no seatbelts. (Which made for some hysterically funny moments with overanxious mothers and grandmothers practically taking off your head with the right arm if they had to stop in a hurry! )

I would regularly ride my bike miles away from home. Nobody freaked as long as I was home by dark.

I think the being outside, doing stuff around town and actually getting exercise regularly part of all that reminiscing is the only thing I actually feel bad about. I don't find helmets and seatbelts and such a bad thing... but it's altogether too easy to sit like a lump for years at a time now.

[Keropi]

Do children still visit the library? We used to do that a lot as kids. I guess they have a lot of other things to do now.

When I was a kid my toy guns were black in color.

[JWR]

I do guess in a lot of ways I'm lucky to have grown up in a safer , simpler time.

When I talk to my kids now 24 & 23 I get the glassy stare back when I mention things like us having only a black & white TV and when we got a color set it came with a magnifier screen you placed in front of it to blow up the picture. I remember both Kennedy assassinations & Neil Armstrong's first steps on the moon.

I worry about being the first generation to not pass on a better life to my kids. Things have gone somewhat insane. I'm lucky to have been able to purchase my wifes parents home when the decided to move to live near Santa barbara. They paid around $20k for it in the 60's. Now I still owe around $140k but houses on my street are now selling for $550k. At this point it seem hard to imagine how those growing up now will be able to ever afford to own a home of their own.

Now I have worked hard to be able to provide a home where my wife did not have to work and was able to raise my kids well. While they were growing up I owned a house that had limited space but had the largest fenced yard on the block so my kids had a place that was safe to play for society was in flux and it seemed that we were just starting to realize that there are sick people out there who would do a child harm if given the opportunity.

I'm at the point that my kids are grown and I was able to help them go to college and now grad school which I hope will give them a fighting chance in this current world. Not to mention being able to have extra money now to spend on cels & comic art.

So age does have it's advantages.

[Baakay]

I do guess in a lot of ways I'm lucky to have grown up in a safer , simpler time.

When I talk to my kids now 24 & 23 I get the glassy stare back when I mention things like us having only a black & white TV and when we got a color set it came with a magnifier screen you placed in front of it to blow up the picture. I remember both Kennedy assassinations & Neil Armstrong's first steps on the moon.

I worry about being the first generation to not pass on a better life to my kids. Things have gone somewhat insane. I'm lucky to have been able to purchase my wifes parents home when the decided to move to live near Santa barbara. They paid around $20k for it in the 60's. Now I still owe around $140k but houses on my street are now selling for $550k. At this point it seem hard to imagine how those growing up now will be able to ever afford to own a home of their own.

Amen, bro.

Although... I could have done without witnessing the Kennedy and King assassinations, thanks just the same

What you said is one of the reasons I'm having such a rough middle-age transition, frankly. It was a good thing to be able to wait until I was 37 and 41 to have my kids, because I could afford to spoil the living crud out of them. On the other hand, that extra half a generation or so has put them that much farther out of the reach of ever owning their own home. Not that renting is the worst thing on earth, but geez...

And we were late enough starting out that there was no way in the world I could stay home with my kids. I would have loved nothing more. But there was no way Nate's income would have stretched far enough. Now of course, I can't stay home because my salary pays the bills and holds our *ultra fabulous* health coverage.

Whine, whine

I wonder what will have to happen to make the country a land of possibilities again. *ponder*

[blueheaven]

worry about being the first generation to not pass on a better life to my kids.

From my vantage point, it sounds like you are giving them every opportunity to thrive in this tough world. You've given them love, support, and an education. All the rest is up to them. Kudos to you for doing what many parents either could not or would not do.

[RoboFlonne]

Now you just have to love your grand children and hope for the best!


p.s. Jack Bauer scares me.

[soda]

I hate that list.

The fact that the list congratulates all of the survivors, demonstrates that many of those things are dangerous no matter what you think.

-born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant
-didn't get tested for diabetes.
-covered with bright colored lead-based paints.
-childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets
-we rode our bikes, we had no helmets
-we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster seats, seat belts or air bags.

Those are all dangerous no matter what special priviledge you think you've been bestowed by merely being born in those decades. I'd like to see the statistics about the number of kids that were harmed by those things. The term 'survivors' is dead on.

The rest of the list was written by a grumpy old man that thinks society is in a tailspin. Grumpy old men have always thought society was on the verge of spontaneous combustion. And you know what? A similar list will be written by kids of the 80's, 90's and 00's.

Next, I ask you this: What age group is responsible for most of this 'explosion of innovation and new ideas.' The kids born in the 80's, 90's or 00's? Nope. It's the kids born in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. If being a child of these decades was so fun why the heck did they grow up to invent such things as Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, video games, 150 channels on cable, video movies, DVD's, surround-sound, CD's, cell phones, personal computers, and internet chat rooms? They grew up to invent these things because they were tired of spending all day on a go-cart, falling out of trees, breaking bones and teeth, eating worms and mud pies. Necessity is the mother of invention and in this case that necessity was fear of having to make up games with sticks and string.

That list also talks about parental responsibility (parent & law) but it conveniently forgets that most of the child obesity in this nation is due to the PARENTS and not these technological advances it proposes as the culprit.

I could go on but I'll stop. That list is one of those stupid chain letters written by someone that didn't put much thought into the list. It reads well the first time through but if you stop and think about what it's saying, it falls apart.

I'll leave you with this: If it was so fun being a child of those decades, why didn't you get that list as a handwritten note in your mailbox with a stamp on the envelope. Hipocrasy!

[Cloud]

And for my part, I would like to show it to you, but I can't.

[blueheaven]

I think you missed the point completely here, soda. This list was not meant to glorify the "good old days." Instead, it was meant to illustrate what our society does best: over-correction. In order to rectify those inequities of the past, we have gone and created a new generation of soft, spoiled, and weak children through the blanching of education, the child-proofing of parks and homes, and the emphasis on a child's self-esteem rather than their well being. No, things were not necessarily better back then. However, by way of a good old fashioned American over-correction, we have gone in the complete opposite end of the spectrum and done just as much harm as good. No hypocrisy here. Just a good look at a generation that had three strikes against it and made it through anyway. Fifty years from now, will this generation (which has more potential than any in history) be able to say the same?

[transmet]

Grumpy old men have always thought society was on the verge of spontaneous combustion.

True enough - if you live long enough, you'll inevitably end up complaining about the "kids these days".

Next, I ask you this: What age group is responsible for most of this 'explosion of innovation and new ideas.' The kids born in the 80's, 90's or 00's? Nope. It's the kids born in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's.

Only because that generation is just now beginning to make their mark. I mean c'mon, they'd only be in their mid-twenties at best.

If being a child of these decades was so fun why the heck did they grow up to invent such things as Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, video games, 150 channels on cable, video movies, DVD's, surround-sound, CD's, cell phones, personal computers, and internet chat rooms? They grew up to invent these things because they were tired of spending all day on a go-cart, falling out of trees, breaking bones and teeth, eating worms and mud pies. Necessity is the mother of invention and in this case that necessity was fear of having to make up games with sticks and string.

Mmmm.... current scientific research in regards to healthy child development seems to prefer organic stimulation over the synthetic route. Something having to do with naturally stimulating learning patterns and problem solving techniques that have been genetically handed down through slow evolution. Thing is, humans haven't collectively caught up to the incredibly fast learning curve that the digital age demands. But we will, of that I have no doubt. What I'm concerned with is the lack of common sense/street smarts that these kids will have to fall back on when it comes to real world challenges and demands - like raising kids of their own, for example.

That list also talks about parental responsibility (parent & law) but it conveniently forgets that most of the child obesity in this nation is due to the PARENTS and not these technological advances it proposes as the culprit.

Actually, I believe most people agree on the point that it's the parents who have dropped-the-ball on teaching their children the ways of the world and properly disciplining them when they choose to ignore the rules. These kids (as well as many adults) are simply escaping/introverting by plugging into cyberspace while stuffing their faces, trying to tune out the real world. It's been done before, only with a lot more hallucinogens.

[Baakay]

Next, I ask you this: What age group is responsible for most of this 'explosion of innovation and new ideas.' The kids born in the 80's, 90's or 00's? Nope. It's the kids born in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. If being a child of these decades was so fun why the heck did they grow up to invent such things as Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, video games, 150 channels on cable, video movies, DVD's, surround-sound, CD's, cell phones, personal computers, and internet chat rooms? They grew up to invent these things because they were tired of spending all day on a go-cart, falling out of trees, breaking bones and teeth, eating worms and mud pies. Necessity is the mother of invention and in this case that necessity was fear of having to make up games with sticks and string.

Oh come now, Soda. If you really believe people invented these things because they were bored with playing outside, you are ... what word will work... misinformed. People invented these things because they could make a buck with them. From the kids' parents And because, face it, people like to invent stuff. "I wonder what will happen if I do THIS? Oooo, cool!"

You think kids who grew up in the sixties or earlier didn't have TOYS? My gawd. Shall I dig out some pictures from around 1960? Mounds. and Mounds. of TOYS. What we didn't have were *electronic* toys.

We ran around outside because it was fun, and because it was social, and because it is a natural tendency of kids -- and of young things of any sort -- to burn off every iota of fuel they have in fidgeting and movement.

Do I believe electronic toys are BAD? Heck no, I have piles of them and so do my kids. But my kids also have to be practically on guard every time they walk down the street, for fear of freaks (and this in a family-oriented neighborhood in a highly religious city), which I never had to do. Its hard not to regret *that* sort of "advance" in society, which some of the other items on the list addresses.

I honestly don't think this list, or any of its variations, is anything other than the result of a natural human tendency to compare and contrast. Those things you observe as a kid are what get ingrained into your psyche as "the way things should be." No matter how enlightened you become as you age, there will always be fun, wistfulness, and nostalgia in looking back at "the good old days." (And the occasional moment of "OH MY GAWD... I HAVE BECOME MY MOTHER!!" or father as the case may be)

The *tone* of the nostalgia is what makes it raise some peoples' hackles, I think. This list *does* have the grumpy tone. But there's no hypocrisy in the list. There's nothing on it that's inaccurate. Any more than there was hypocrisy in my grandmother reminiscing about growing up with the cows and horses on a farm. It's just... the way things were. And the way human beings are.

Besides, if we can't take a look at ourselves once in awhile... we will never develop.

[glorff]

Each generation will look at their parents and choose a near opposite route to follow to make up for their perception of the shortcomings of the previous generation. This is natural. Hippies raised conservatives, depression kids had conspicuous spenders. This next generation will become something else in reaction to this one.

That is the best part of the adventure, you never are sure where it will take you