Fan cels of Rilezu cels

awajikiwi · Post by **awajikiwi** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:59 am

Okay I few people have emailed me asking why madoka has lowered the quality of the rilezu images on site now.

Here is the deal,

Previously we posted large-size images so that our customers could understand the high quality of Rilezu cels. However, these product images were misappropriated and used to create pirated fan cels, so we have been forced to stop posting large images.
The copyright owners and companies that have obtained the copyrights do not condone the production and sale of illegal counterfeits (pirated fan cels), nor the commissioning of the creation of these cels. If such pirated fan cels proliferate, it might render the sale of Rilezu cels impossible, so if you encounter a fake, or any involvement in producing fakes, beware and please contact the copyright-holding company.

We are considering issuing a warning of legal action against this illegal activity.

This may cause inconvenience to some of our customers who love Rilezu cels, but we seek your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

The Copyright Management Companies and Copyright Holding Companies

jenn-b · Post by **jenn-b** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:58 am

Okay...I feel that I need to post here. I had a few fan cels done from Primo Passo a few months ago. However, I had everything done from screencaps before anything was ever posted of each image. I was told that Rilezu could not be done of each of these scenes, which is why I chose to commission a fancel. I do not have the images online at this time and am not looking to profit from them.

But if this is considered illegal than I guess that I am turning myself in.

*edit*
Actually, upon further inspection, my fancels were never made into Rilezu. So....I guess I'm not turning myself in?

Startyde · Post by **Startyde** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:36 am

Are there certificate's of authenticity with a Rilezu? If so, why is there an issue? Clearly people would not think they are real without one, so how could it hurt sales for the "real McCoy?"

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:36 am

Why do I exist?

Kagejin · Post by **Kagejin** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:52 am

Well I guess ... oh wait, maybe not. I do fancels or reproductions, for a lot of reasons. 1) They are fun 2) Hand-inking and painting cels is becoming a lost art. Ah, the computer age. 3) I've been asked to. 4) The declining quality of some series's rilezu. Some series, not all, by any means. I'm not even gonna mention pricing. I think the only series Madoka has that I have done anything from is SDK, and I own all those sketches, none of which were ever made into rilezu I don't think. And I make most of my cels for myself, not for sale.

90% of the ones I do are from screencaps. Grainy, fuzzy, washed-out screencaps. Oh joy. The other 10% are from sketches. Still need that fuzzy screencap.... Then there are the 'cels from manga'.... A lot of work any way you look at it.

The majority of the stuff I do they don't make any rilezu for that series in the first place. Shinzo. Shinzo? That's Canadian, not even Japanese.

Sorry Stephen, I do see your point, I know you are just trying to protect Madoka. But unless someone goes out and buys whatever machine that does the inkwork and then starts cranking them out and selling them.... That's an unlikely scenario.

I love doing them, and they are a challenge (especially those CG generated special effects).

I mean no harm doing them, and none here, Stephen.

Dina

EternityOfPain · Post by **EternityOfPain** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:57 am

This is similar to telling individuals to stop fan subbing series that are already licensed anime. Good luck with that.

First I like to point out when you said "pirated fan cel" I never knew there was a difference between that and a regular "fan cels". After all, isn't the source of the rilezu simply screen caps from the anime series? So doesn't it seem possible that the source of the fancel is also from a screen cap from the anime verses an actual existing rilezu?

I am simply pointing out that if cel companies and such are against the individuals who are "taking sales away" from the creation of rilezu then why don't these same companies go after individuals producing fancels in general? Because you know... the creating a fancel and selling it.. doesn't it mean they are illegal also because they dont own the "rights" of the character and yet there profiting from this. if this is illegal then why are these companies simply going after individuals who have created fancels that happend to be the exact frame they choose to do?

In conclusion... A fancel of a rilezu (which uses a screencap from the series) is no different than a fancel being created by a sole individual. The only difference is the creator. If they truely are trying to correct this issue, I suggest you dont bother. Pirating is here to stay. This is also why companies still do inventory counts yearly regardless if they buy a set number of stock etc. Theft, crime, its here. Companies simply have to deal with this (which many are). But I think I may have gone off on a tangent because the main point is you can't stop it.

Ms. Poe · Post by **Ms. Poe** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:29 am

All I can say is I have quiet a number of fan cels. Even getting a hanken repro done right now...I've got a Loveless fan cel starting next....Any number of fan cels from a series...Has never detracted me from buying from that series.

Even if I bought a fan cel...and the Rilezu showed up...If it came with the matching sketches you better believe I'd buy it! That's the reason I got it made in the first place! Rilezu's have detracted my interests mainly b/c they are so expensive, and some don't even come with the matching sketch(es). If Rilezu's don't come with the matching sketches...They're just an overpriced fan cel to me...Even if they're official...They're just an official fan cel without the sketches...

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:41 am

You know - I have to agree with Poe here. Unfortunately,
many of the series (may I add that I am not talking about
my Basilisk cels) are done poorly in my opinion. It is really
hard to pay upwards of $200 to $500 for a Rilezu to have
the colors be all wrong, and that seems to have happened
to be - ALOT. I think some fan cels are better then the
Rilezu cels (my opinion). And, without the sketch (which
I am pretty sure isn't the original if you get one), its really
hard to justify when you can pay $50 for a fan cel of equal
or better quality.

Ms. Poe · Post by **Ms. Poe** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:52 am

Gonzai wrote:You know - I have to agree with Poe here. Unfortunately,
many of the series (may I add that I am not talking about
my Basilisk cels) are done poorly in my opinion. It is really
hard to pay upwards of $200 to $500 for a Rilezu to have
the colors be all wrong, and that seems to have happened
to be - ALOT. I think some fan cels are better then the
Rilezu cels (my opinion). And, without the sketch (which
I am pretty sure isn't the original if you get one), its really
hard to justify when you can pay $50 for a fan cel of equal
or better quality.

I can't agree more...

The fan cels in my collection...I've paid $400 for one...and it could easily pass off as an original hanken cel. The only rilezu I've seen match that are the hanken repro's that cost $1500+

And they don't come with sketches either...Guess what? "Official" fan cel.

Even if you call it a reproduction...A Fan cel is the same thing...They just don't have "official" status...

And all fan cel artists are thieves, they don't have studio rights, they're stealing....blah blah blah...Same thing different day...

-_____-~!

klet · Post by **klet** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:44 pm

Legality of fancels aside, I think what Stephen is warning against is using Madoka's images of their pre-done rilezu (or screencaps of what they plan to do) to make fancels. Basically, they don't want anyone else to be able to buy that exact frame, because it's bad for business.

I know people don't like others using their scans to make fancels. This is kind of the same thing . . .

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:20 pm

I'd recommend that you only show screenshots of the scene and not of the actual relizu cel if that's the problem...

Ms. Poe · Post by **Ms. Poe** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:10 pm

klet wrote:Legality of fancels aside, I think what Stephen is warning against is using Madoka's images of their pre-done rilezu (or screencaps of what they plan to do) to make fancels. Basically, they don't want anyone else to be able to buy that exact frame, because it's bad for business.

I know people don't like others using their scans to make fancels. This is kind of the same thing . . .

Most people are making fan cels b/c they don't see the rilezu as being made, it's too expensive, or they missed it the first time...

And I really haven't seen a rash in our collecting pool of this happening? Has anyone else???

Shampoo · Post by **Shampoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:39 pm

I dont own fancels nor care for rilezus for reasons already
explained.
But after reading everything thats been
said I have to echo the opinion that trying to pin blame on
a single person or buyer about what is a fancel as opposed to
"illegal" fancel according to a rilezu company is flat-out
ridiculous and impractical.
Trying to decide just on who really is a culprit or just trying
to make a fancel of a series thru screengrab or
a buyer not aware of these new 'rules' Madoka has placed
open up more questions than answers and no real
proof if going thru w/ a prosecution.

If we are going down that route, than why dont animation companies
in Japan crack down on Doujin circles who put out doujinshis or folks who
make garage kits?

klet · Post by **klet** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:00 pm

Ms. Poe wrote:
klet wrote:Legality of fancels aside, I think what Stephen is warning against is using Madoka's images of their pre-done rilezu (or screencaps of what they plan to do) to make fancels. Basically, they don't want anyone else to be able to buy that exact frame, because it's bad for business.

I know people don't like others using their scans to make fancels. This is kind of the same thing . . .
Most people are making fan cels b/c they don't see the rilezu as being made, it's too expensive, or they missed it the first time...

And I really haven't seen a rash in our collecting pool of this happening? Has anyone else???

Yeah, I agree with that. I was just stating what I got out of Stephen's post is all. Madoka doesn't want people making fancels of the images they have/will make into relizu. They really don't want people to use their images to do so. Are they still going to be made? Yes. It might come to the point where people won't be able to publically display such fancels, but they'll still comission them or paint them themselves.

I personally haven't seen this kind of thing happening, but I don't buy relizu because I simply can't afford to spend much more than $100 for a cel, let alone $500 or even $250. So, it could be happening for all I know. Maybe it is more rampant in Japan, and the staff at Madoka heard about it (like, word going around about a particularly talented fancel artist or something). I think the original point of the post was to answer the question that the English-speaking cel community had been asking Stephen, and since beta is the cel forum that attracts the most attention, posting this announcement here made the most sense.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:39 pm

This thread is kinda like the fancel etiquette thread a few months ago...

http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtop ... t=fan+cels

I mean if someone made a fancel of a relizu I owned... I wouldn't be happy... I might say... Grrrr... $500....

But I wouldn't sue anyone...

Unless they try to sell it or pretend it was the original... Then it's just wrong...