?Inferno on Rubberslug

ReiTheJelly · Post by **ReiTheJelly** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:57 pm

RoboFlonne wrote:You can't do an appraisal on a picture alone.

True, except that she is getting the appraisal for an unofficial reimbursement (from her in-laws). If it were for an insurance company, there is no way that they would accept an appraisal done from a burnt item and a scan.

Kero · Post by **Kero** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:13 pm

ReiTheJelly wrote:
RoboFlonne wrote:You can't do an appraisal on a picture alone.
True, except that she is getting the appraisal for an unofficial reimbursement (from her in-laws). If it were for an insurance company, there is no way that they would accept an appraisal done from a burnt item and a scan.

Exactly my thought. I want an estimate of what I lost (money wise) from someone in the bushiness of cels. I need current replacement value, not what I paid for them x years ago. Hopefully someone can give me some help.

Kero · Post by **Kero** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:35 pm

Just to let all of you Utena fans out there know, I think I am done uploading all of my Utena cels, both the scorched and the MIA.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:45 pm

Have you found anyone to vouch for your cel values yet?

Tell them that after you get your money, that you'll buy some cels from them!

Kero · Post by **Kero** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:51 pm

Alas, no. I wrote Anime Link and they never wrote back. I haven't had the mental energy to do more. I am in the middle of moving (now more complicated since I can't move into the house!) so I can start work. I finished photographing and I try to post a little bit every night (tonight I did some Escaflowne sketches that weren't in my missing book, but in a burned cel box). My brain has gone pip, but I am a bit more emotionally stable - I haven't cried in days!

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:59 pm

Kero wrote:Alas, no. I wrote Anime Link and they never wrote back. I haven't had the mental energy to do more. I am in the middle of moving (now more complicated since I can't move into the house!) so I can start work. I finished photographing and I try to post a little bit every night (tonight I did some Escaflowne sketches that weren't in my missing book, but in a burned cel box). My brain has gone pip, but I am a bit more emotionally stable - I haven't cried in days!

Don't give up! I'm sure someone will help! Remember to remind them that you'll have several thousand dollars and you'll need to replace the cels you lost!

Kero · Post by **Kero** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:21 pm

Yes, but I'll have to save money for buckets to collect my drool in... Just thought of more exciting cels....

Kero · Post by **Kero** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:28 am

I just posted in a "misc. damage" section on inferno many pics of the damaged cel books, including the garbage can used to deliver my cels to me. Now, I just need to figure out Youtube so I can post the video I have of the damage upstairs. It really is astonishing that I have any cels left at all, when you see that the walls were completely eaten away!!

pixie_princess · Post by **pixie_princess** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:07 am

Once you have an account, click the little upload button in the right hand corner of your account page.

Ms. Poe · Post by **Ms. Poe** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:30 am

I've asked my insurance company(AmFam) what it would take to even begin being considered for insurance on my cels, and here's what they told me:

*You would have to get an appraisal from a professional.

When I asked if they had to be certified, they said no, but it would help greatly. However, how many certified cel appraisers have you ever heard of specializing in our field(japanese anime cels)? Most have a vast knowledge of American Animation art...I explained this to them, and then asked if an accomplished dealer specializing in the field I collect in would work...And they said YES. And it would have to be a written appraisal, IN PERSON. They could give an appraisal on scans, but may hurt the insurance settlement in the end(images could of been modified, etc). So, that would basically consist of me packing up my cels and toting them to Curt's...2 hours away...And you still have to get the dealer to agree to it...I'm sure this is just what they want to get involved with....and insurance claim breathing down their neck ans scrutinizing every aspect of their appraisal and business...

*I would have to scan in EVERY SINGLE piece of artwork I am trying to cover.

EVERY SHEET. EVERY CORNER. In the HIGHEST quality possible. You know how long that would take? When I own entire cuts? Some 250+ pages long? And then keep an accurate, detailed catalog of it all.

Those are the 2 main rules my agents said I would have to accomplish. Any additional information I could obtain on my cels(proof of current market value...Original receipts...Studio appraisal-YEAH RIGHT!- Would help out my case if it would ever have to be brought for review.

Suffice to say I never bought the extra insurance to cover the art...even then it would only cover up to $9,000...My currect home insurance will cover up to $2000, but both of those totals are NOWHERE near my current collection value...

If I'm ever home during a fire...You best be belivin' I will take the risks to kick out a window and toss those bastards out! My cels are right next to me as I sleep...All stored up nice and neat...Would take but half a second to grab them all and get out safely with them.

As for fireproof safes....One's big enough to accommodate my hanken cels...Cost more than a new car...Most people can't afford them.

While I'm on the cel safety subject...Does anyone know of a company in the US who specialize in art protection? Like a bank for artwork? I've always thought about getting a lock box at a bank for my cels, but none are near big enough for my hankens...

Hope this all helps...

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:27 am

Ms. Poe wrote:Suffice to say I never bought the extra insurance to cover the art...even then it would only cover up to $9,000...My currect home insurance will cover up to $2000, but both of those totals are NOWHERE near my current collection value...

Boy, that's really not very much coverage at all.

There are a number of collectors out there that have over $30,000 in anime production artwork...not to mention all the $50,000+ collectors.

pixie_princess · Post by **pixie_princess** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:26 am

Ms. Poe wrote:I've asked my insurance company(AmFam) what it would take to even begin being considered for insurance on my cels, and here's what they told me:

*I would have to scan in EVERY SINGLE piece of artwork I am trying to cover.

EVERY SHEET. EVERY CORNER. In the HIGHEST quality possible. You know how long that would take? When I own entire cuts? Some 250+ pages long? And then keep an accurate, detailed catalog of it all.

If I'm ever home during a fire...You best be belivin' I will take the risks to kick out a window and toss those bastards out! My cels are right next to me as I sleep...All stored up nice and neat...Would take but half a second to grab them all and get out safely with them.

Do you have an SLR and a Tripod? Its faster than scanning for what you would need to do. The last time I took photographs of my collection was last October... I ended up taking slightly over 949 photographs(I just counted the raw picture files in my cel folder) only including cels and sketch art. I did this in spurts of a few hours each over 3-4 days. I need to take photographs of about 60-100 more cels now and their matching sketchs and backgrounds.

As far as receipts go, I've been saving my invoices from Celga, and the whole webpage of the auctions (w/pictures) for several years now. Other private collectors have sent me invoice sheets with a pic of the cel as well. I keep my invoices in one envelope, and I've only printed out some of the auction pages. My hope is to also photograph the invoice sheets I have in paper format and burn multiple dvds with the photographs of the cels, the invoices, and original auction listings -and keep one at home and the others at my parent's and inlaws homes.

Sorry... just the image of flying cel books is sorta funny, not that the situation would be at all. A safe may be out of the question on price alone, but do you own your own home, or are you able to remodel certain areas? The reason I ask is because there may be steps you could take on making part of your basement safe for certain items. I know there is cinder block, and other fire-retardant foams and sheet rock... Proper construction of a safe area for collectibles that had some kind of outside air/ventilation and a dehumidifier may be a solution for some. Then again, that'll cost a lot of money too...

slight side note: The number I gave up above also includes a few sets of settei from 2 Hamtaro Movies, and from the TV series, as well as a SM Stars era book of studio reproduced douga images. Over half of the items in that number are either Genga, douga, layouts or other related sketch art.

The reason I don't have everything on rubber slug is because it takes a bit of editing prepping these pictures for viewing. Thumbnail Masks, bringing out the line art more on certain genga/douga, animating said douga if it is part of a cut, and writing descriptions. I suppose it can always just be plopped up and worked on later, but then things wouldn't really match, now would they ^_^

graymouser · Post by **graymouser** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:34 am

My condo insurance only covers the first $1000 of my collection. Years ago I checked with a friend of mine who owns an insurance agency. She could not find any home owner's insurance that would come close to covering the value of my collection. I have been told by others on this forum that their HO insurance does cover their collection so this may vary by state.

At the moment I have separate insurance for my collection. The company I use does not require appraisal at the time of application. Instead, they let me estimate the value to determine the amount of coverage. Here is their web page (though I am sure there are many other companies out there)

http://www.collectinsure.com/

They suggest on their web page that an inventory is kept (scans/photos/receipts etc) to make the claims process easier. The only time that an appraisal would be needed is if there was disagreement over the value of the loss at the time of a claim. Unfortunately the prices of animation art are constantly changing and its not very practical to keep having to reappraise everything regularly. The best I can hope is that if a dispute ever came up, they would accept an appraisal from a scan and description. I am glad to hear that at least the company that Ms Poe made inquiries with was willing to consider/accept such dealer appraisals. Hopefully mine would do the same. If not, I also keep records of the amount I spent on every item so at the very least I can get back what I paid for.

As for scanning everything, I tend to fudge a bit. I have scans of all cels and then written records of the condition, number of sketches it came with, key layers, etc. For sketches, I scan 1-3 pieces of a set and then keep a record of how many sheets of each type (dougas, corrections, artboard, layout and gengas) are in the set.

Kero · Post by **Kero** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:31 pm

My new renter's insurance (state farm) covers up to $2500 for collectibles. We talked about getting increased coverage. They need an inventory with pictures and an informal estimate (remember, they will only cover what you estimate it's worth). I think I might go the route of the specialized coverage for my remaining collection.

The next question I have to answer is should I insure my cels that were in the fire? Some cels merely smell like smoke and some were obviously quite burned. How much are they worth now? Would you buy a damaged cel? How do I assess their worth? Any ideas?

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:36 pm

Kero wrote: Some cels merely smell like smoke and some were obviously quite burned. How much are they worth now? Would you buy a damaged cel? How do I assess their worth? Any ideas?

I'd buy it for around maybe 10%-15% of how much a non-burnt cel would be if it was really hard to find.

Anyone else know how much "Lightly Toasted" to "Burnt to a Crisp" Cels cost?

If you want to sell some of your Burnt Cels... I'd buy some!

Like this one! If you want to sell this one! Please let me know!

http://inferno.rubberslug.com/gallery/i ... mID=249294