Fan Cels...good thing, or bad thing?

Kane · Post by **Kane** » Thu May 23, 2002 9:23 pm

I don't own any fancels, but I think they're ok, as long as they aren't being sold as a production cel. I would like to add one to my gallery someday, but I wouldn't have it done from a specific scene, I'd like it to be of a character(s) in a situation not in the anime itself (that sounds bad, but I think you all know what I'm trying to say!).

Juunana_Gou · Post by **Juunana_Gou** » Fri May 24, 2002 8:50 am

I have mixed feelings for fan cels. I don't really mind if someone makes one because they like that scene, or if someone makes on for a friend.
But I don't agree with making them and then selling them (Or Auctioning) to whomever.
I wouldn't buy one, and I don't care to own one, yes, it is a opportunity for some to get a Cel they will probably never get, but I rather not have the cel than have a fan cel. The whole purpose for me collecting cels; is to collect Original pieces of art from a Anime, not to buy cels made by a fan by tracing/xeroxing (Whatever) a screen cap or a original pencil sketch.
Even if My ultimate Dream cel ever arose in a fan cel form, I would not wish to own it, even if it was a exact down to the line replica.
I like my cels the same way I like my anime, untampered with and Original.
But, that is just me and my oppinion.

Allison · Post by **Allison** » Fri May 24, 2002 9:29 am

Just when I thought I was the only one living in a van by the river...

Well I dont mind fancels, I bought one simply because I knew I'd never have one from the original sequence. I won't display it in my gallery out of respect to the people who might own real cels from the sequence.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » Sat May 25, 2002 11:37 pm

Fan cels are very irritating when it seems like they are 1/4 of the results of my eBay search. It also seems like there are some unscrupulous sellers who instead of stating a cel is a fancel they just do not specify that a cel is authentic or used in production.
Sheri _ sorry to hear about Hyperenity - it sounds like fancel piracy to me. I guess you can look at it as if they are idea thieves or just be proud that your idea was so creative that they thought they would sell it to others. It sounds more like thievery to me!

bout · Post by **bout** » Sun May 26, 2002 12:28 am

I don't care about fancel but please,... I don't wanna see them on EBAY. Annoying to see them on my search results!!

Elfstalker · Post by **Elfstalker** » Sun May 26, 2002 12:56 pm

I thought I was the only one irked by seeing them flooding eBay. The title listing should say "fancel" in it- many a time I see a listing that's too good too be true and it was. "Rare Future Trunks anime cel" or something. I click, and it's a dumb, ugly fancel.

Deadly Whispers · Post by **Deadly Whispers** » Tue May 28, 2002 8:20 am

It is really too bad about eBay and fancels. I honestly don't care about fancels either way - I wouldn't buy one but can see how much fun it would be to make one.

But really, that's another thing eBay should watch out for (too much for them to handle, this is just one more). It isn't illegal to create fanart, but it is illegal to sell it for profit. I hate running into those in my searches too.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » Tue May 28, 2002 11:39 pm

I just got back from the river - which one of you stole my van???

Golden Dragon · Post by **Golden Dragon** » Wed May 29, 2002 3:11 pm

Yah, I really hate when they list something as a cel and it is actually a fan cel.

When I put up the few I made, I put in the title "Fan Cel". So, if anyone was not interested they just wouldn't click on it at all. I created 9 fan cel and three of them where requested. One of the requested ones and 2 of the others that were sold on ebay went to the same person. (This person said that I should create another one (the requested scene) and sell it on ebay. But I didn't think that would be right to do. Yes, it is from a scene that she sent me a pic of, but I made it for her, so I just could make another to be sold to someone else). I sold two others on ebay. The others I still have. I made them to see if I could. I made the sketches, and I inked the cels by hand and painted them myself. There is also someone out there that is taking their cel and printed it out on celloid with their printer. I think that this is wrong. At least a fan cel uses someones artistic tallent to paint the cel.

SW, I am sorry to hear that Hyperenity is taking your idea and using it to make more money on it. I have also noticed that Hyperenity also takes images from other peoples cels. That just annoys me when I see it.

I should have signed the ones I made so that they could be sold to others as real, but it didn't occur to me at the time.

I have one Fan cel of Taski from Fushigi Yuugi. It was just too awesome not to buy and it is hugh.

soda · Post by **soda** » Wed May 29, 2002 9:51 pm

Actually fan cels violate copyright law. FUNimation has the rights to the characters and for someone to use them without permission is illegal---especially to make money. Even if the cel is not of a scene from any episode or movie, they are illegal. Even fan fics and custom figures are violation of coyright law. They are what is known as "derivative" works. Take a read through this: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html But reality must be taken into consideration. I seriously doubt that FUNimation would be concerned about fan fics and custom figures since they are usually done for fun by adolescent fans. But to use the DBZ characters to make some serious cash selling copys of cels is serious. I'd be curious to know what FUNimation thinks of fan cels.

dbzmomma · Post by **dbzmomma** » Thu May 30, 2002 4:30 am

That's a good point, soda. I had thought about that, too, but I figure if anyone was to do something about it, they'd have their hands full sueing thousands of fans. But that's the reason I wouldn't sell mine (if they were ever sellable) unless I was specifically commissioned.

People have been writing fanfics since there were fans. I wrote some in the 80s and they had been around long before then. I doubt if anyone would ever do anything about those. Major literary orgs even give awards to the best zines.

haruna.of.jurai · Post by **haruna.of.jurai** » Thu May 30, 2002 8:49 am

i've been looking around this forum and thinking about posting for a while now, but i've never really found anything to post about, so i'll post here. i am a fancel artist; perhaps not as good as some, but i get by. i do have to say that i disagree with making fancels of original production cels, or even of reproduction cels. the only time that i did this was when i was first starting out, but i never sold them, i kept them in my own gallery as fancels.

the ones that i sell on eBay are unique; i usually draw from my own imagination, or from an image that came from a book or card, not from one used in the production of a show, though. my last fanart cel was one of ryoko of tenchi muyo, which came from the box of a game that i have (the lines weren't very good either ^~). i only sell them on eBay because i need money to buy real cels sometimes, and i'd like people who want fanart cels to have a chance to buy some.

another thing that i don't like about fanart cels is, yes, the fact that people are copying others. i sold a fanart cel of ed & ein a while back, and then the next week, hyperenity had a cel of them up. then i sold my one of ryoko, and the next week sure enough, hyperenity had one up. i don't like them because they not only appear to be copying others fancels, but because they mass-produce. i'm sorry, but if i make a fancel and sell it, it's going to be the only one out there if i didn't make one for myself to keep. i will not reproduce a fancel that i've already made for auction or for someone else.

and i think that fancels are (were, anyways) valued because they were a rarity to see. nowadays, hyperenity posts at least 20-25 fancels at a time, and they're all usually not that good. and they also, as you guys have said, don't put the word "fan" in their auction titles/descriptions. i do this because i know that it annoys people; hell, it annoys me. i think that fanart cels started out as a nice idea, but now that someone has found a market for mass profit off of them, it seems to give the whole fanart community a bad rep.

haruna
harunaofjurai@sailormoon.com
http://aurora.rubberslug.com/

Wolfette · Post by **Wolfette** » Thu May 30, 2002 8:51 am

I've always heard the law is kind of vague when it comes to fan works. Otherwise doujinshi would be illegal, and they are all over the place. While Funimation has the right to distribute DBZ in the US, they really are not the copyright holder - Toei Animation Studio's has never sold the copyrights, all they've done is allow Funimation to sell the anime in the USA. If anyone has the right to sue the fan cel artist it would be Toei, and they're not very concerned with it.

Sheri

Wolfette · Post by **Wolfette** » Thu May 30, 2002 9:05 am

hi haruna, and welcome to this forum!

I'm glad you found a reason to post. I recognize your name from the Animanga forum. I totally agree with your comments, especially about the way Hyperenity is mass producing their fan cels - it's just not right. Especially when they are taking their customers original ideas and making 50 (or more... shit, if all 50 sold do you think they wouldnt make a second run?

) copies of MY idea (as well as other customers... grrrr). It's just not right. The fan cel I had made was NOT in YYH, it is just my personal preference for a cute pairing of characters from the series and one which I write fanfics about. It just makes me sick they've basically stolen my idea for this.

Anyway, is your ebay ID the same as your name here? I've not seen your works before and would enjoy seeing them. I'm always looking for *honest* people to do fan cels for me - do you ever take commissions, out of curiosity?

Thanks much, and I hope you'll continue to post here! We're a pretty eclectic and laid back group, I'm glad I was pointed towards this forum.

Laters,

Sheri

haruna.of.jurai · Post by **haruna.of.jurai** » Thu May 30, 2002 2:38 pm

yep, my eBay name is haruna.of.jurai . i don't have any auctions right now, but i'm working on a great cel of natsumi/michael from tenshi ni narumon, might not even put it on eBay, though. i hate to mass produce cels, and people that do have no morals about cels. i mean, seriously, they're special because they're one of a kind, not because everyone has one and it's the cool thing to do...

i do take commissions if you're interested, although i haven't scanned all of my fancels, i can give you examples if you want to see my work. i've experimented with all kinds of different pens, especially, thicker ones and thin ones, etc. i know what you mean about the cute pairings, too, ^~ i want to do a cel of faye and jet from cowboy bebop next, maybe could make her aggrivating him while he's trimming bonzai trees or something

.

haruna

PS: i thought that your name looked familiar! i id'd your touya cel from card captor sakura a while back, at my other email addy (lavainia@yahoo.com) ^~.

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