How should rilezu's be entered in the cel awards?

[Goldknight]

You can't change the votes once they've been cast. I guess you could post your error so we could take that into account on the final day. I thought if I tried deleting your post that your vote might get deleted, but that wouldn't be the case.

[Matt]

oh ok, no big deal. Thank you very much for tying to fix my boo boo Goldnight.

[syan]

I voted for both repros and rilezu. While a repro may not come with a corresponding douga like a rilezu, the image is based off something that was shown on screen.

If the worry is the number of repros for a certain image, couldn't it be handled like a very long sequence where cels may look very darn close. If two repros of a certain image are submitted, treat it like a sequence mate situation of first come, first served.

Of course, I like looking at Bleach and Naruto repros. I'm not sure what other CG shows have them. I know that some older shows like FY and YYH have repros too, but again, first come, first submitted, even if the second person has the actual production cel the repro was based off of.

[Angelic-Lair]

Since things seem to be dead-locked, we thought we might make a suggestion.

Instead of putting rilezu everywhere, or grouping them all together into a single category, why not create a rilezu sub-section within the cel awards?

Within the sub-section, voters could pick the best male, best female, best creature, etc... depending upon which categories are selected. It might make sense to limit the number of "best" criteria to five or so, otherwise we would just be creating another Beta-Awards competition.

You could make it an optional category, too, if you wanted, as it would be a completely unique sub-section.

We believe that this option might be an alternative that everyone can agree on; rilezu cels would be grouped into a single category but they would be judged on multiple criteria, like the production cels.

[ReiTheJelly]

Since things seem to be dead-locked, we thought we might make a suggestion.

Instead of putting rilezu everywhere, or grouping them all together into a single category, why not create a rilezu sub-section within the cel awards?

Well, it is not dead-locked any longer. But if you look at the three voting options, #2 and #3 are similar in that they both AGREE that Relizu should be allowed in the contest. The only difference is whether or not to allow Repros.

So right now the high vote has a YES for allowing relizu, but still a NAY on repros.

[Angelic-Lair]

Wait a minute... are you saying that you're tallying options two and three together? That doesn't seem right.

[ReiTheJelly]

Wait a minute... are you saying that you're tallying options two and three together? That doesn't seem right.

Why not? Both of those options agree that Relizu should be allowed in ALL categories. They only differ on the subject of Repros.

So if we are solely discussing whether or not to allow Relizu into the contest, voters in BOTH of those categories have said YES, THEY SHOULD.

[zerospace]

A-L: Your suggestion for the handling of rilezu sounds very similar to the suggestion I made in 2008 for sketches. It was shot down then for sketches, so I'm not too sure what others would think of doing something like that for rilezu cels. It's also not really a compromise for this particular issue, since the issue is whether or not to include rilezu in the cel awards, as it specifically separates them from being judged against production cels.

I concur with Rei regarding the "reading" of the meaning of options 2 and 3 -- in both cases, the people voting for both of those choices are saying that they believe rilezu should be allowed in all categories, the point of contention being whether or not repros should be handled the same way. Option 1 votes are against both repros and rilezu being allowed in the regular awards, period (as in, they need their own categories). Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Angelic-Lair]

Why not? Both of those options agree that Relizu should be allowed in ALL categories. They only differ on the subject of Repros.

So if we are solely discussing whether or not to allow Relizu into the contest, voters in BOTH of those categories have said YES, THEY SHOULD.

While we can understand the logic in tallying option 2 and 3 together for the rilezu issue, 30 to 22 is, in our opinion, not a significant difference. It would definitely not be a good cut-off for an official study or survey. It shows how split the community is on the issue. This is just our opinion however, and we understand if other members disagree with that.

[irmgaard]

Combining #2 and #3, rilezu inclusion is currently preferred:

58% to 42%

This is interesting in that it is a very similar percentage to the one used to exclude rilezu in the awards just past :

60% to 40%

http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26669

That poll, however, did not have an option to include rilezu without repros, though it did have an option to include hankens.

[Angelic-Lair]

Combining #2 and #3, rilezu inclusion is currently preferred:

58% to 42%

This is interesting in that it is a very similar percentage to the one used to exclude rilezu in the awards just past :

60% to 40%

http://www.anime-beta.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=26669

The difference is that the poll you reference was run to make a decision in about a week's time. Since there are several months between now and the next contest, we were hoping maybe people would be open to an idea that doesn't alienate 40 percent* of the voting population.

Either way, you are correct that the numbers are similar but in favor of different options. Maybe people's opinions have started to swing?


* 40 percent assumes that you tally options 2 & 3 together

[Matt]

"Maybe people's opinions have started to swing?"

Or maybe people hit the wrong button like me D'Oh

I would like to be able to keep production cels separate, sketches seperate and combine repro's and rilezu or even have those in their own sections. I find it hard to compare cels to sketches. It is just a whole different medium.

I have had fun voting on the other beta awards so whatever is chosen is chosen, in the end it is just nice to see other collectors art.

[GuyvarIII]

Well, I Just voted to include both rilezu and repros in all categories. Because I think the contest should be as inclusive as possible of everyone’s collections, no matter what items they collect. And I don’t like the idea of the cel awards turning into the dying contest of shows from a decade, or more, ago (even though these shows make up the bulk of my collection ) except for one category.

If repros and rilezu are included in all categories of the contest, I feel it will make it open to newer collectors who are collecting items from the new, or newer, shows they are watching. Those who don’t like rilezu or repros can simply choose to not vote for those items.

[Goldknight]

I'm shocked at the closeness of this poll. I have to agree that votes stating that Rilezu/Repro should be allowed means that they could be merged with the Rilezu should be allowed part. Either way though it's really close.

[sensei]

My only concern is the issue of uniqueness. Rilezu are one-of-a-kind art objects, and so I see no problem with considering them as equivalent to old-style production cels. Repro cels are not unique but produced in identical series. While the runs may be short, there still is the likelihood that two or more identical repros may be entered in the same category.

In my mind, this would be like a fine art contest in which lithographs were allowed to compete in the same category as watercolors. It wouldn't make sense: the former is a design that is meant to be reproduced, while the latter are intended to be one-of-a-kind.

One could say that some artists do many versions of their watercolors, which would seem identical to the eye. But that's not the point. The artist makes the watercolor, the litho press makes the litho. Making too many copies of a watercolor compromises the artist's show of creativity. But a series of identical lithos shows that the master printer running the press is doing his or her job superbly.

The aesthetics point two different ways. I don't see how the two could possibly be judged in the same category.