A "National Treasure"

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Pixel
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A "National Treasure"

Post by Pixel »

So, we previously discussed at length a bill introduced into Japan's parliament calling for the creation of a national museum, that would collect and preserve anime production art as "National Treasures of Japan"

How would you expect such "National Treasures" to be treated by those who made it?

I wound up with this setup almost by accident. I'd asked about something else, and was offered this instead.

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Vertical Pan Cel Setup
Marmalade Boy (Toei Animation)
Episode 62 - "Goodbye/I Can't Be Your Girlfriend Anymore."
Single Character - Jinny GOLDING


The Setup

jinny_pan3_sm.jpg
jinny_pan3_sm.jpg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 1309 times

This cel setup will not scan properly-Jinny's medium/dark pink overshirt comes out as muddy brown when I try it. Plus the cel is WAY too big for the scanner anyway. I'm sure it's a pigment idiosyncrasy. You see, I saw a scan of a cel recently of another character from the same series-her jacket was muddy brown. When I located the matching scene within that episode, sure enough her jacket was either the same color as Jinny's overshirt, or very close to it.

Jinny is part of what I call the "American contingent" of Marmalade Boy-a group of characters introduced late in the series as part of Yuu's study of architecture abroad in the States.

I've taken numerous pictures, and have not really been able to properly capture this cel yet.

Looking at it today, this is still a very pretty cel. I picked it up the other day and looked it over. I noticed when I held it at an angle, the apparently black sleeves of Jinny's shirt actually turned a very dark blue when struck a certain way by the ambient light. I don't know why, but I felt like it was something special to see that.

I wish I could have seen this setup shortly after the paint dried on it almost 25 years ago. I have no doubt it was gorgeous! It almost makes me want to cry to think how nice it was.

I'm not just talking about Jinny-the background is simply brilliant! Look at all that good stuff on the table in front of her. It's hard to see in the picture, but the pencil box says "EXELON MAIN ST" on the top, with the number 1972 on the side. I'm not sure of the significance of that number. I love the way the table is actually part of the background, but yet appears to be in front of her.

The expression on her face may look like simple boredom, but with a bit of context, it becomes intriguing.


As to what is going on. Jinny is thinking back to shortly before. Earlier, Jinny lied to Miki about having a physical relationship with Yuu. The way she treated Miki is one of the most hateful things I've seen in the entire 76 episode series.

I've included links to videos showing the context. I like having my cels in at least minimal context. (Sorry for the less than stellar video quality.)

Miki's Flashback - Jinny lies to Miki.

These videos feature the pan cel, immediately following the scene showing Jinny seated from behind, and across the room.

Jinny deep in thought.
Jinny deep in thought. (Extended for context.)

The girl talking to Jinny in the extended clip is Doris O' Connor. IIRC, she is Jinny's roommate, and the most sensible acting character in the American contingent.

What must Jinny have been thinking? Was she afraid of getting caught? Feeling guilty for lying? We are never directly told-this is what makes the facial expression in the pan cel so interesting, trying to read the girl's thoughts.

In any event, Jinny seems to feel much more cheerful near the end of the episode.

As nice as this cel setup once was, it is in need of serious work. It is in two layers + the background. The layer containing most of Jinny is taped to the background most of the way across the top.
mb62_jinny_back_ur.jpg
mb62_jinny_back_ur.jpg (173.54 KiB) Viewed 1309 times

The animated hand layer is taped at the left side and appears to be double-stick taped at the bottom to the Jinny main cel.

mb62_jinny_side.jpg
mb62_jinny_side.jpg (409.42 KiB) Viewed 1309 times

This is an awful way to treat a cel, and the card background in particular. The background has also been cut down at some point-you can't see it in this photo, but part of a label in the top right of the BG that has been cutt off on the right hand side. It looks like there was a hash mark on it. I suspect this label may have been used by the studio to reference the BG in various documentation used for photographing the setup for animation.

The likely culprit in this is none other than the studio itself. Apparently, Toei would sell some of it's cels in a studio gift shop for tourists. They would cut down the backgrounds (if not the cels themselves) to get them to fit in a standard size bag, tape the cel layer(s) to a background, then the cel would be sold this way.

Notice I said a background-it was not an overly serious concern if the background actually matched the cel.

At this point, the cel paint making up Jinny's body is likely stuck to the background as well. This is a horrible situation to have to rectify, but for the long term health of the cels it must be done.

Anyway, I do have some questions about the setup.

Is Jinny's body on "A layer", with the animated hand cels each in a sequence on "B layer"?
Is the hand layer I have likely the last one used to complete photography on the hand? It looks like sort of a "home" position, right before each cycle of the twirl animation. Jinny must have had excellent dexterity to twirl a pen around like this.

Should I try to separate the hand layer from the body layer? Do I need to do it any special way? Is that likely to cause paint from the hand to come off?

If Jinny's body is on the A layer, and it is the only "A" layer cel used in this cut, is it considered a key cel?

Were their procedures in place to replace a cel if it became damaged during animation?


____________________________________________________________________________________________


If only all of the elements had been properly separated in the first place, this would not have happened.

All I can say is if the studio did this to this beautiful cel setup as part of disposing of it, they have in my mind forfeited any further claim on it.

Even with the troubles it has, this is one of my favorite pieces, and my favorite featuring a single character.
Last edited by Pixel on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cutiebunny
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Re: A "National Treasure"

Post by cutiebunny »

Pixel wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:22 pm So, we previously discussed at length a bill introduced into Japan's parliament calling for the creation of a national museum, that would collect and preserve anime production art as "National Treasures of Japan"

How would you expect such "National Treasures" to be treated by those who made it?
Like the garbage that the studios who produced it thought that it was. Remember that Japan only very recently began considering non/production artwork as a national treasure. Before this bill was brought up, unless the series was popular or the artwork was exceptional, it was just considered to be junk that no one wanted. For example, when Kobato finished airing in Japan, one seller had a lot of backgrounds with copy douga & layouts that he was selling on YJ. As I bought almost all of them, I can tell you that some of them were folded so as to fit into a circular trash bin. But most studios simply just burned the artwork. I've heard of a horror story from one collector of a CG series who was told that she could go through their storage closet & take whatever she could cart out for some absurd amount, but that would be it & whatever she didn't save was going to be burned. I spoke with the US head of Production IG at Anime Expo several years ago. I had recently watched a Production IG film that had been released in the US and inquired about owning some of the backgrounds. She told me that the studio hangs on to them for a few years in the event that the movie becomes a hit and there becomes a demand for an artbook of the series. But, after that, they burn all the artwork.

Those of us who have been collecting for a long time are well aware of the damage previous owners & studios can do to artwork by not storing it properly. Smoking around artwork? Check. Slapping a freshly painted dark background so that the color seeps & discolors the cel? Check. Not separating cels from their douga, allowing them to eventually become plastered together? Check. Keeping the cel in the same sealed rando plastic bag for years? Check. Plastering sketches with more tape than ever needed & allowing it to discolor the paper? Check. Exposing them to sunlight by hanging them in a sunny room? Check.

This was why several of us were irate when Japan was voting on considering cels/sketches as national treasures. It felt like a slap in the face to those of us who conserved this artwork as it felt that Japan wanted to take all of that from us under the guise of it being culturally important property.

Has there been an update regarding the passage or defeat of this bill? I've seen no further mention on ANN.

Regarding the red color - Most scanners can't properly capture the red color on cels and other artwork. Scanners were purposely designed this way to prevent the counterfeiting of currency.
Pixel
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Re: A "National Treasure"

Post by Pixel »

cutiebunny wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am Like the garbage that the studios who produced it thought that it was. Remember that Japan only very recently began considering non/production artwork as a national treasure. Before this bill was brought up, unless the series was popular or the artwork was exceptional, it was just considered to be junk that no one wanted. For example, when Kobato finished airing in Japan, one seller had a lot of backgrounds with copy douga & layouts that he was selling on YJ. As I bought almost all of them, I can tell you that some of them were folded so as to fit into a circular trash bin. But most studios simply just burned the artwork. I've heard of a horror story from one collector of a CG series who was told that she could go through their storage closet & take whatever she could cart out for some absurd amount, but that would be it & whatever she didn't save was going to be burned. I spoke with the US head of Production IG at Anime Expo several years ago. I had recently watched a Production IG film that had been released in the US and inquired about owning some of the backgrounds. She told me that the studio hangs on to them for a few years in the event that the movie becomes a hit and there becomes a demand for an artbook of the series. But, after that, they burn all the artwork.
I'm inclined to think they saw how much foriegners were spending on the remains of anime productions and it made them rethink their attitudes a bit. Then, some people just like to start trouble simply because they can.
cutiebunny wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am Those of us who have been collecting for a long time are well aware of the damage previous owners & studios can do to artwork by not storing it properly. Smoking around artwork? Check. Slapping a freshly painted dark background so that the color seeps & discolors the cel? Check. Not separating cels from their douga, allowing them to eventually become plastered together? Check. Keeping the cel in the same sealed rando plastic bag for years? Check. Plastering sketches with more tape than ever needed & allowing it to discolor the paper? Check. Exposing them to sunlight by hanging them in a sunny room? Check.
I'm becoming rapidly acquainted with it myself. I guess part of my own shock comes from seeing this differently from those in charge of making it. I've done some artwork on-and-off over the years, but was never prolific in part due to a lack of confidence.

The studio just thought of this setup as something in the way. When you crank out a ton of Mikis, Chiyos, Hiroshis, and Kous, perhaps this one setup of a second or even third-tier character doesn't seem so grand. To someone like me who has struggled to produce art that he likes, and also studies line and form, something like this setup is nothing short of remarkable.

cutiebunny wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am This was why several of us were irate when Japan was voting on considering cels/sketches as national treasures. It felt like a slap in the face to those of us who conserved this artwork as it felt that Japan wanted to take all of that from us under the guise of it being culturally important property.
I posed the question a bit rhetorically. I knew there were members here who had experiences with the ill treatment of production art. I thought this was an excellent, compact demonstration of just how ridiculous those members of the Japanese Diet were being. Also, I wanted to show the newbies who come here what they were getting into. Plus, I need some help to fix Jinny. I'm not quite sure how to deal with preserving an oversized two-layer plus background cel setup.

I also rather enjoy the irony of a Japanese conceptualization (a parody really) of an American character like this showing these people's sudden "concern" for Japanese production art for the farce that it is.
cutiebunny wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am Has there been an update regarding the passage or defeat of this bill? I've seen no further mention on ANN.
I have not found out. I even went to what I think is the website for Japan's "House of Representatives", but I don't think there's enough of the site functional in English for me to find out anything.

I repeat what I said earlier, with emphasis-If Toei disposed of this cel in this manner, they have forfeited any claim they have on it, period.

Should the matter of repatriation ever come up, we will need documentary evidence of how these pieces were treated historically. Another reason for posting Jinny.
cutiebunny wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am Regarding the red color - Most scanners can't properly capture the red color on cels and other artwork. Scanners were purposely designed this way to prevent the counterfeiting of currency.
I should have known the government had something to do with it.
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Re: A "National Treasure"

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Pixel wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:07 pmI'm inclined to think they saw how much foriegners were spending on the remains of anime productions and it made them rethink their attitudes a bit. Then, some people just like to start trouble simply because they can.
I would be surprised to find out that the Japanese government has any idea as to how much foreigners have spent on production & non production anime artwork. That would be a difficult figure to obtain. Yahoo Japan would be of no help because most foreigners go through deputy services, all of whom have a local contact and buy through that party. Mandarake might give them a better idea, but they can't account for those foreigners who buy things at their store, in person. When I went to Mandarake back in 2012, no one noted my nationality when I bought items. Unless things have changed, they are not recording that information.

My guess is that this is related to the Cool Japan project Japan's tourism agency has been touting for years. They're convinced that many foreigners, particularly the young, go to Japan because it is the land of anime & manga. That may be the impetus that brings them to the country. That, I feel, is why they want to create a museum in the first place. It would be a great tourist attraction. But..one problem...other than auction sites, where do they find the artwork to put in it? Instead of addressing the real reasons as to why there aren't vaults of cels lying around, it's far easier to blame foreigners. A quick Google search could easily bring up online galleries owned by foreigners, and voila...proof that all the good stuff is owned by the gaijin abroad.

All this does is just make collectors go black hole. Case in point - The recent request by the creator of the Chihayafuru manga. She will be holding an artwork exhibit in Tokyo and requested to borrow sketches sold on YJ for the Japanese Earthquake/Tsunami relief fund in 2011 & 2012. I bid on one of her sketches back then but I was outbid and they ended for a couple grand each. But, let's say I had won, or the exhibit was for all Chihayafuru artwork. I own a charity auction sketch drawn by the anime series director that would make for a great addition to this exhibit. Do you think, in this current environment, I'd even remotely consider sending it to Japan to be displayed? What if the bill passed while in Japan and the government decided to claim my sketch for their museum? What recourse could I possibly have?

Regarding your belief that Toei has lost all claim to cels produced by their studio - It's not Toei that you would have to worry about. They have their own mini museum in Tokyo and at least when I was there in 2009, there was no interest in having their cels returned. You could even play with a sequence of production cels in a small room that featured a couple of machines once used to make cel based animation for the studio.
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Re: A "National Treasure"

Post by Pixel »

cutiebunny wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:28 pm All this does is just make collectors go black hole. Case in point - The recent request by the creator of the Chihayafuru manga. She will be holding an artwork exhibit in Tokyo and requested to borrow sketches sold on YJ for the Japanese Earthquake/Tsunami relief fund in 2011 & 2012. I bid on one of her sketches back then but I was outbid and they ended for a couple grand each. But, let's say I had won, or the exhibit was for all Chihayafuru artwork. I own a charity auction sketch drawn by the anime series director that would make for a great addition to this exhibit. Do you think, in this current environment, I'd even remotely consider sending it to Japan to be displayed? What if the bill passed while in Japan and the government decided to claim my sketch for their museum? What recourse could I possibly have?

Regarding your belief that Toei has lost all claim to cels produced by their studio - It's not Toei that you would have to worry about. They have their own mini museum in Tokyo and at least when I was there in 2009, there was no interest in having their cels returned. You could even play with a sequence of production cels in a small room that featured a couple of machines once used to make cel based animation for the studio.
On the first point above, such an action cuts both ways. Japan cuts off collectibles to foreigners, we can stop buying finished anime series. I don't really have much right now, but there are a few series I'm thinking about. Not saying "send your sketches to Japan" or anything like that, simply that we do have a response should such actions ever come.

On the second, I said that in case the Japanese government at some point decides to try and drag the studios into the argument. I know there are several potential points that they could try to argue, but I figure the production site will be at the core of their rationale.

Which will be positively hilarious for shows where a large chunk of the work has been outsourced from Japan.

As an aside, does Toei even still have the masters of the older shows like Marmalade Boy and the older Dragon Ball series? (I think it was two words at one time, I think.)

EDIT: Right as I was just about to start collecting, I tried to "authenticate" a couple of sketches by emailing J.C. Staff through their web form here while back. I don't know if it was less sensible to contact them at all, or to do it entirely in English. It seemed like it was worth a shot. Anyway, I never got a response of any sort. I rather doubt they're overly concerned about a bunch of old sketches, either.
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