Holw late do you wait before you bid?

sugarcels · Post by **sugarcels** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:03 pm

Forgive me if this was recently asked. I am half asleep from studying and may have missed it in my search

How late do you wait before you place a bid? Do you bid a few days before and hope for the best, or a few minutes before? Are you so excited sometimes that you simply can't wait until that very day before you do anything? Has this method ended up biting you in the butt?

I just found a wishlist Pokemon cel on Y!J, and I am so elated right now I don't know if I can wait 3 days before it ends. But I don't want to be hasty and am not sure when I should bid

Does it make a huge difference?

kymaera · Post by **kymaera** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:38 pm

It's my opinion that bidding early usually doesn't help and in many cases just
makes the price go up higher for you or make you a target for snipers. I
usually wait until the last minutes to bid.

kittens · Post by **kittens** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:10 pm

It depends..... But I usually bit early even though I know it typically not working

I had to mark my territory

klet · Post by **klet** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:32 pm

Like kittens, it depends. I might (like I did recently) put in a test bid just to kind of "mark my territory." I don't know how much it helps, though, as most people do not know my bidding ids--well, id.

I'm hoping that it will help this time, but we'll see.

Sometimes, I decide to wait until the very end and then forget to bid.

I guess that just proves that I didn't really want, anyway. Also, I have started throwing in my max bid on YJ auctions before going to bed. It has to take something I really want to get me out of bed early these day. Not enought sleep as it is.

Post by **JWR** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:06 pm

In my case , due to the auto extend feature on most YJ auctions I just stay up till I feel tired then bid what I consider the max that cel is worth to me , then check the emails in the morning to see if I won or that someone else overpaid for it. To me it really does not matter if I get outbid by $5 or $500 my max is my max I deem I am willing to pay for it.

It's my way of keeping what little sanity I have left. It always amuses me when I see posts of those complaining that they got sniped for a cel they would have been willing to pay much more for then they lost it for but chose not to place a true max bid in hopes that they could get it for less. I guess there is some fear that someone might bid up an auction just cause they want them to pay more for it though I have never understood such childish behavior but do know it happens.

sugarcels · Post by **sugarcels** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:22 pm

ACK! The bidding just shot up. Is it because I mentioned it here? >_>

I know now that I should wait, lest things get worse.

kymaera · Post by **kymaera** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:45 pm

JWR wrote:It always amuses me when I see posts of those complaining that they got sniped for a cel they would have been willing to pay much more for then they lost it for but chose not to place a true max bid in hopes that they could get it for less.

Well, there is a factor that you haven't considered: internal sniping when
using a deputy service. There are situations when another user of the same
service can overwhelm your bid by more than anyone would realistically ever
pay for the cel, but only pay a fraction of that.

Post by **JWR** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:24 pm

kymaera wrote:
JWR wrote:It always amuses me when I see posts of those complaining that they got sniped for a cel they would have been willing to pay much more for then they lost it for but chose not to place a true max bid in hopes that they could get it for less.
Well, there is a factor that you haven't considered: internal sniping when
using a deputy service. There are situations when another user of the same
service can overwhelm your bid by more than anyone would realistically ever
pay for the cel, but only pay a fraction of that.

True but in four years of dealing with Rinkya , I have only had that happen once which must make me lucky. Also while an internal bid might outbid me , they may get the lower sale price than my max. They still must pay commision off the dollar amount of their outbid of my max and lose the bargans associated with Rinkya's sale policy. So in the end they may end up paying more than I would have if I got it for my max with the discounted fees.

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:54 pm

Usually I wait until the last day to bid. It might be the last nine hours or the last nine minutes. It varies.

If the seller has ended auctions early before and if it's for something I'm more serious about getting then I might bid a few days early.

Auctions that are ended early are not fun.

kymaera · Post by **kymaera** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:02 am

JWR wrote:So in the end they may end up paying more than I would have if I got it for my max with the discounted fees.

Interesting theory. All we need to do is rewrite the rules of math to have it
happen.

The commission is based off of the closing price on YJ which doesn't change
between you and the sniper. The only difference is in the outbid fee which is
a fraction of the difference between the YJ closing price and your max bid.
So, you getting it for your max would've always been more because you
would've had to:
1) pay the whole difference between the YJ closing price and your max vs.
just a percentage of this amount.
2) pay any additional commission fees between the YJ closing price and your max.

The only circumstances where this might be possible is if the YJ closing price
was within a few hundred yen of your max bid which in that one case is
an instance of a person should've probably bid higher.

In my several years of using deputies, I've been sniped by others in this way
multiple times (as well as doing it to others multiple times

) and judging by
the posts here, many others have as well. So, just because it's never happened
to you but once doesn't invalidate it as a counter-argument to your earlier post.

Krafty · Post by **Krafty** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:58 am

It's very annoying when you want to outbid another Rinkya bidder with your own Rinkya account- you may get the item a little cheaper based on the final sale price, but assuming the item sells for under 10,000y, you have to pay a further US$13.00 in commission.

When do I bid and WHAT do I bid? It totally varies on the type of the auction, the seller and how much time I have. [Keropi will love this response because of the analysis

]

Type- Some series are popular and will get bids throughout its duration. In that case I needn't bid early because my initial bid will likely be overridden quickly. The only time this can be of benefit is if I want the auction in my 'Bid History' list for reference purposes.

Other series have a select bunch of fans whos bidding habits I know. In that case I've learnt to wait till the end of the auction before starting the bidding tactics.
By the way, for those who say there's no tactics in bidding, that's not true. Part of the fun is psyching out the opposition and it does play a part in auctions.
If you're bidding on a cel from a relatively competition-free series, bidding early is good. If a potential bidder/opportunist already sees a bid on a cheap cel, they'll probably turn away and leave you to it.
If you were to wait till the dying minutes, that opportunist may already bid, thinking they're getting a good deal. But if you REALLY want the item, you'll then have to pay more to beat that initial bid. Even if it's just 100 or 250yen, those add up over time, especially if it brings you over a deputy's commission tier

Seller- As Keropi mentioned, some sellers will delist the item if there's no bid in the last 24 hours. When you know which seller might this, it's best to get in there early or risk missing out.

Having the Time- On occasions we can't always be there in the dying moments to monitor the state of play. As such it's sometimes necessary to bid early and it's worth bidding a little more than you'd like to pay.
I get annoyed if I'm outbid by a small denomination like 100y, so I'll bid more than my budget allows so if I still loose, I know it was out of my reach and I'm satisfied.
I remind myself that each piece is unique and that if someone gets it, I'll never see it again. That's how I justify spending more on certain artwork.

Post by **JWR** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 am

kymaera wrote:
JWR wrote:So in the end they may end up paying more than I would have if I got it for my max with the discounted fees.
Interesting theory. All we need to do is rewrite the rules of math to have it
happen.

The commission is based off of the closing price on YJ which doesn't change
between you and the sniper. The only difference is in the outbid fee which is
a fraction of the difference between the YJ closing price and your max bid.
So, you getting it for your max would've always been more because you
would've had to:
1) pay the whole difference between the YJ closing price and your max vs.
just a percentage of this amount.
2) pay any additional commission fees between the YJ closing price and your max.

The only circumstances where this might be possible is if the YJ closing price
was within a few hundred yen of your max bid which in that one case is
an instance of a person should've probably bid higher.

In my several years of using deputies, I've been sniped by others in this way
multiple times (as well as doing it to others multiple times ) and judging by
the posts here, many others have as well. So, just because it's never happened
to you but once doesn't invalidate it as a counter-argument to your earlier post.

Well my one experience was quite a while ago (Having a high max I tend not to have this problem) and in viewing Rinkya's new fee stucture it appears they have changed things to "encorage" more bidding against each other internally from that time. I guess in their mind they are only looking for more fee money which is the purpose of a business. I do believe it's better than some deputies I have heard of that only the first person to bid is put forward and the others are locked out even if they are willing to pay more untill the first bidder's max is passed by another not of that deputy.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:02 am

Like others here, it depends. Sometimes I like to claim the item(and be that initial deputy bidder) and other times I'll wait until the last day to bid.

Although, during the last five weeks and my reliance on the government systems at the facility, I put my bid in days before the auction ended.

I think that the biggest influence is if I know the cel is going to be bid on by many. If that's the case, then I'll wait until the end because I'd like to win the item as cheaply as possible.

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:37 am

When I see a deputy service bidding on something I'm interested in it sort of throws a monkey wrench into the machine.

If I see a recognizable deputy name, I'm more likely to bid in the final minutes. It depends on how much I want it and how expensive it is. If it's for a less expensive item, I'm more likely to bid at the very end. I usually will use a different deputy than the current high bidder's, but it's a difficult choice to make sometimes. Sometimes you favor one deputy over another and using the other will only incur extra shipping charges for you.

It's uncommon for me to go up against "generic" deputy bidder names at the very end of auctions. I worry more about the bidders with their own YJ accounts.

When I've encountered the "same deputy service bidders" it's been for the cheaper items.

ashenfairy · Post by **ashenfairy** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:30 pm

AS a general rule I don't like sniping I understand why everyone does it and I do it too but, I always feel like an ass about it. I generally always put in a preliminary bid usually about 1/4 of what my max will be just to deter anybody who'd randomly come along and bid thinking they'll get a great deal, Like Krafty pointed out and I know I've been detered from bidding on soemthing becasue there's already a bidder on it. I usually bid half my max sometime in the last hour of the auction if there are other bidders and just slowly inch it up when the auto-extending fun starts. Doing it this way generally insures that two things

A)I Don't forget about the item as I'll get a notice when I'm outbid

and B) I can keep a decent ammount of my deputy limit left while the auction is running in case something even better pops up in the meantime. (As we've got a fairly low bidding limit to protect us from ourselves)

Though to spread things around we do use two deputies and have our own YJ ID to avoid too many bid wars within the same dep. service.

On the whole though it's all a matter of it's what the Item is, what time it ends and how much I want it. If I want it enough I have zero bidding strategy other than I will use every possible method at my disposal to try to insure it becomes mine much to the unhappiness of my pocketbook.