Couple questions for CCS collectors

[Gonzai]

Ok, I know there are some pretty faithful CCS collectors
that are members here, and that is who I am directing this
post to. I visited an onsite gallery today, which had some
absolutely beautiful cels. Then I went through all of the RS
collectors galleries, and yep - more stunning cels. Finally,
I went to YHJ, and looked at the CCS cels and noticed there
were tons of them - most with no bids at all.

So, my questions are these:

1. What, in your opinion, makes a cel collectible, when there
are so many to choose from??

2. Since I know very little about CCS, tell me about the cards?
Does the cel having a card in it make it more valuable, the
rarity of the card, or is it the beauty of the cel along with the card.

examples: (Sorry for linking to your cels guys, but I am curious)

http://www.gundam-club.com/cels/ccsakur ... -a-054.jpg

http://sensei.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... emID=16139

http://rallihir.rubberslug.com/gallery/ ... mID=127022

3. Is the scene very important to you? I have seen some cels
from the same scene in different people's gallery, which appear
rare to me, but not sure if they are or not.

examples:

http://www.gundam-club.com/cels/ccsakur ... -a-031.jpg

http://rallihir.rubberslug.com/gallery/ ... emID=68001

http://sensei.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... emID=21616

4. Is the character that you are drawn to?? Again, I know nothing
about the series, other then the artwork is beautiful, so what
is it about the characters that makes them collectible?

5. Finally, are you drawn to OP cels, movie cels, or just the
regular cels the most?? I really think some of the movie
cels are gorgeous, as well as the OP and regular.

Have to use examples of some of the movie cels that just really
draw me in by their beauty:

http://www.gundam-club.com/cels/ccsakur ... m-0025.jpg

http://rallihir.rubberslug.com/gallery/ ... emID=90150

Again, I apologize for linking to your cels, but it just helped
me expain what I was trying to say.

[Baylor]

Well, I can only speak for me, how I collect CCS, and how I observe the trends. Sensei and rallihir are definitely the big mentors in this arena.

1. I think this is the broadest question I've ever seen. I think that certain characters (Yue) and certain scenes make cels more desired, along with cels of Sakura in her different costumes. Cels of the cards in their tangible forms (not as the cards) seem to pick up pretty pennies as well.

2. I personally don't care if a cel has a card in it in the card form. I look for the cards in their other forms. Sadly enough, I seem to have a lot of trouble winning a decent Firey or a Thunder card cel. I think that the rarer the card is, such as the light and dark cards, the more valuable the cel is. I also think that it has a bit to do with the beauty of the cel. For example, cels of Firey with fire magic sell much higher than a cel of Firey doing nothing.

3. Scenes are important to me. For example, the cels I have of Meilin glomping Li, Li with Sakura from near the end of the series, and Sakura in the mock crucifixion (drools over sensei's sequence mate) were all wishlists.

4. I'm drawn to some characters, particularly Yue and Li. I think it's more of the CLAMP design that draws me more than anything. CLAMP and Watase Yuu really know how to do eyes and beautiful expressions.

5. I think the second movie draws in more attention because of the fan-service it plays. I didn't like the first movie, so I only have cels from the second. I would love to own an OP cel, but oy vey the prices hurt so very very much. I think that most people are drawn to the TV cels just because there are so freaking many. More fun scenes that way too, even though the art is better in the movies.

Well I now tap sensei or rallihir with their expertise to take the floor.

[rallihir]

You have a diverse set of questions. Every CCS and for that matter cel collector probably has different positions on these questions. But as for me...

1. What, in your opinion, makes a cel collectible, when there
are so many to choose from??

I first chose a cel because of the artwork. If I find a cel visually intriguing, that is the first priority. Second, I like scenes that have particular emotional impact. The "key" episodes or scenes in the anime. Periods where there are important plot devices revealed or sequences where the important points in the anime are made are critical. Third, I like complete set ups. Anytime the cel+background+genga/douga are available that draws my interest. Combinations of these preferences seem to be what many cel collectors operate from and this drives the price/value of a cel.

2. Since I know very little about CCS, tell me about the cards?
Does the cel having a card in it make it more valuable, the
rarity of the card, or is it the beauty of the cel along with the card.

Many collectors, including myself, like the cards. The cards are an integral part of the story and have intricate designs. I know of a couple collectors who are assembling sets of the Cards. I don't think having a cel of the card makes the cel more valuable, but as with all cels, the set up of the cel with the card creates its value. And, of course, the beauty of the individual cel is important.

3. Is the scene very important to you? I have seen some cels
from the same scene in different people's gallery, which appear
rare to me, but not sure if they are or not.

Yes, this scene is a key scene in the middle of the CCS story. Several collectors have multiple cels from different points in this sequence. It is also a particularly powerful, transcendant, and moving scene. This scene ranges in value from fairly inexpensive to outrageous depending on the timing and position of Sakura. There have been nearly a dozen Sakura+Wood cels in the sales market in the last five years.

4. Is the character that you are drawn to?? Again, I know nothing
about the series, other then the artwork is beautiful, so what
is it about the characters that makes them collectible?

I can only speak for myself, but I am pretty sure it is the same with others. It is Sakura growing up through the trials she encounters with the cards, the beautiful CLAMP artwork, and the entertaining side story arcs that lead me to call CSS my favorite anime as well as eminently collectible. Interestly, the high end cels from CCS still command high prices on YJ in spite of a 5 year gap since the last CCS production was done. Many of the best cels have never come on the market.

5. Finally, are you drawn to OP cels, movie cels, or just the
regular cels the most?? I really think some of the movie
cels are gorgeous, as well as the OP and regular.

I like all of the cels, but if I had to pick one in particular, I would say the opening cels from the 1st season are my favorite. A close second are any scenes where there is emotional tension between Sakura and Li. But, key cels from the movies and TV are great as well. I also like the Movie 2 vs. the Movie 1. I think the production artwork and values were higher in the 2nd movie. The movie also concludes the story line and finally brings the relationship between Sakura and Li into the open.

Also, your observation about the number of cels on YJ is astute. CCS has 70 episodes + 2 movies. That generates a tremendous amount of cels. There are many "filler" cels that depict regular life in the CCS world. They do not have the value that the key scenes and certainly the OP cels hold. The OP's in particular have taken on a life of their own in the YJ market. They have only continued to be come more expensive. In five years of collecting, I thought I knew most of the YJ ID's that were consumate CCS collectors, but I still encounter new CCS collectors every once in a while who are willing to make large bids for cels.

Still, I wouldn't stop looking even as the number of cels dwindles.

Sensei, it looks like it your turn at the podium...

[ReiTheJelly]

1. What, in your opinion, makes a cel collectible, when there
are so many to choose from??

When purchasing CCS cels, I look for specific characters or sequences. I'm mostly into character designs, which is why I love collecting the Clow Cards.

2. Since I know very little about CCS, tell me about the cards?
Does the cel having a card in it make it more valuable, the
rarity of the card, or is it the beauty of the cel along with the card.

Like I said in #1, I'm all about the various designs, so my goal is to get at least one nice cel of each Clow Card available.

3. Is the scene very important to you? I have seen some cels
from the same scene in different people's gallery, which appear
rare to me, but not sure if they are or not.

Certain scenes certainly would make me consider spending more than I otherwise might have. Final Judgement cels come to mind quite readily.

4. Is the character that you are drawn to?? Again, I know nothing
about the series, other then the artwork is beautiful, so what
is it about the characters that makes them collectible?

Character doesn't matter as much to me as design does. But in some regards, I think that I tend to shy away from Syaoran cels, since I find him really really annoying.

5. Finally, are you drawn to OP cels, movie cels, or just the
regular cels the most?? I really think some of the movie
cels are gorgeous, as well as the OP and regular.

All CCS cels are gorgeous. Obviously OP and movie cels tend to be high-quality, simply because of the amount of time/money spent on creating them. For me, I love OP cels because I adore the 3 CCS OP themes. I collect cels from the 1st movie because they're beautiful and from the 2nd movie because it's my favorite (as well as having nice artwork).


All CCS collectors are different. My gallery primarily focuses on the Clow Cards and OP cels. I have hardly any cels of Sakura, and no cels of Touya, Yue, Yukito, Fujitaka, Syaoran or Meilin - they just don't interest me nearly as much. But you'll definitely run across some galleries that are dedicated to one (or more) of these characters.

[duotrouble]

Well, I'm going to sneak in.

1. I'm drawn towards certain characters. It's a collectible to me if it has Syaoran, Yue, Yukito or Toya in it. (WHAT?! The main character is a GIRL?! ) Plus, I'm drawn towards what appealed to me during the series.

2. For a lot of people, getting the Card cels are the ultimate. Not for me though. I wouldn't mind having one really good Twin cel but that's because I'm a Gemini. So the reason really has nothing to do with the show for me. Good thing too because the Card cels - from what I've seen - tend to get pricey. It's probably because the Cards themselves aren't shown that often. Sure, every episode has a Card in it but they are different Cards. She has something like 52 of them. (I'd have to double check that number. )

There are also certain times Sakura uses a Card that I want. Those are from scenes that mean something to me. Here's an example.

Sakura with Time

I always wanted Sakura in her ski bunny outfit and I always wanted the Time Card. So it was only natural for me to want them together. Of course, I also HAD to get a cel of Syaoran using the Time Card too.

Syaoran and Sakura using Time

The Time Card is special to me.

3. Yes, the scene is very important to me. It's kinda how I collect all of my anime. Does the scene speak to me? Do I think it's pretty? How much am I willing to spend? SOLD!

4. THE GUYS!!! I'm most drawn to Syaoran. He's such a wonderful guy. I just want to hug him. He's going to grow up into an incredible man. Next, I'm drawn to Toya. He's the protective older brother. He reminds me a lot of my older brother, always watching out for me but trying not to let me know about it. Then it's kind of a toss between Yukito and Yue. Yue edges out just a little but I guess it really doesn't matter, does it CCS fans?

5. Mostly, I'm drawn to the series cels. Well, anything I think is beautiful but I mainly collect from the series. I have a few from movie 2. I used to have some from movie 1 but I sold them all. I'm just not as a big a fan of that movie. What I wouldn't give for Toya holding his bike in OP1 or Syaoran in OP3?!

[sensei]

Sensei checks in wearily before getting to work on grading

Without reading my co-collectors' thoughts carefully (I reserve the right to edit later) ...

1. What, in your opinion, makes a [CCS] cel collectible, when there
are so many to choose from??

That's a good question, as there remains a lot of stock out there, not just on YHJ but in just about every online dealer's stock. Madhouse, unlike some studios, seems to have cleaned house of everything -- cels, sketches, backgrounds, hanken -- and with a series that went to 70 episodes, 3 little "extras," and two movies, that's a huge amount of inventory. I can't even begin to imagine how many individual cels would go into just the 70 TV episodes, I'm sure a number in the millions. A lot of these normally would go into 100-yen-a-cel boxes or sold as grab bag lots (such as some I've gotten for TnN), while the cels that appear for auction would be pre-selected as being significant enough to sell.

Contrast how the dealers handle <i>Inuyasha</i> cels, of which there are far more in existence than CCS cels. Yet IY cels come up in little trickles, are almost always attractive images, and sell for biggish prices. If the jobbers had done the same with CCS, then we'd see a similar situation. My guess is that the dealers expected CCS to be wildly popular for a while and tried to move as much of their inventory as they could, and held back only some of the really nice stuff.

Yet such is the residual interest in CCS (it's been reshown in its entirety recently on the Japanese equivalent of PBS) that dealers continue to market what I'd call "low-end" cels individually. They must sell well enough to make it worth their while, though YHJ's policy on relisting unsold items must facilitate this glut. One dealer in particular has recycled the same cels so that I used to be able to remind myself what day of the week it was by seeing which cels popped up for sale that morning. (But the same dealer, on occasion, lists a gem, so I don't dare not look.)

I would say it's a variety of things: beauty, rareness, significance. (More below.)

2. Since I know very little about CCS, tell me about the cards?
Does the cel having a card in it make it more valuable, the
rarity of the card, or is it the beauty of the cel along with the card.

Not necessarily. CCS has "bank cels," which unlike those in Sailor Moon were painted individually for each episode, using the same animation. Lots of these have cards in them, and they don't especially go high, even when you see the card design. I just happened to like the design of the Wood Card (love that art-deco look!) and so I nabbed this as an impulse buy. There are a few other Card designs in my collection, notably my "Mystery 5" showing the five cards Sakura captures during summer vacation. It's not, in my opinion, one of my most exciting cels and it was extremely cheap ... yet it's one of the five most hit-on cels in my collection. Go figure.

For my money, the Card Spirits (when they're in action and not in their flat card form) are much more desireable. The Firey is one of the really spectacular designs, and so I have more of him than any other Card Spirit (and his cels get hit on a lot also). Yes, rarity is an issue here, as some Spirits get virtually no screen time. I believe my cel of The Dark is the only fully eyes-open close-up of this character in existence. (The Light gets more time on the screen, but still there aren't many of her, and so Rei and I are always looking daggers at each other when one shows up FA.)

3. Is the scene very important to you? I have seen some cels
from the same scene in different people's gallery, which appear
rare to me, but not sure if they are or not.

The scene is extremely important. CCS was brilliantly done from a dramatic point of view, and so there are some scenes that are just "The Scene" to all of us. (Yes, yes, not all the same "The Scenes" are the same scene.) Cels from the great moment when Sakura's brother gives his power to Yue always go high. But ... I'd have to say that for me the individual beauty of the cel trumps any significance of the scene. An ugly or odd-looking cel (as with eyes half shut) is just an ugly, odd-looking cel from That Scene. (But that's my 50 yen, as I see they continue to be priced rather high when they come up, and they do sell.)

4. Is the character that you are drawn to?? Again, I know nothing
about the series, other then the artwork is beautiful, so what
is it about the characters that makes them collectible?

I'd say yes, though we all are drawn to different characters. Cels of Tomoyo go rather high, even though there are a lot of them and the character isn't my favorite ... but some collectors make a specialty of her, especially Japanside. And some people are strongly drawn to Syaoran (as I see from the way even rather plain cels of him show up in my top-50 list). I'd have to say that the drama expressed in the cel and the significance of the scene are more important to me than the character.

Plus there's the matter of the battle costumes, which were handsomely designed (by Mokona Apapa, the manga artist) and I find well worth collecting for their own sake. So I end up with lots of Sakuras, which is good because I would have to say that she is my favorite character, especially when she's mad.

5. Finally, are you drawn to OP cels, movie cels, or just the
regular cels the most?? I really think some of the movie
cels are gorgeous, as well as the OP and regular.

I'm drawn to cels I can afford, which means that I don't have as many movie or OP cels as I'd like. They are beautifully designed and more detailed, as their images had to stand up on a big screen. But I get the best cels I can afford at the time. I'd rather get one lovely CCS cel than ten so-so ones.

Hope this makes sense: the cat is demanding to be fed and there's an ominous stack of ungraded papers to my left.

[sensei]

A little addition: yes, I'd agree with rallihir that when you get the entire set-up, with the original background and the paper that comes with it, that makes the item all the more valuable to me. I visited that gundam-club site you referenced, and while I thought it was strong on the Second Movie final scene ("That Scene," obviously, for the collector) I was annoyed by the cels with obviously non-matching backgrounds. Sakura going down a water slide ... with a classroom behind her??? I'd much rather see a plain colored cel card than a distracting bg ... but of course having "the" original art is best of all.

Oddly, though, some of my really cherished items of this sort were not especially pricey, some going for sums like 1500 yen.

But price is not the same as collectability, as we've so often seen. When there are two people who want the same cel, then price is irrelevant. I've fought rallihir for cels I wanted (before I learned better), then saw him pick up a sequence-mate later for less. And I was lucky with my "Crucifixion" cel in that I saw it on a dealer's site before anyone else. The price I paid was about 15% of the closing price that one nearly identical sold for six months earlier on eBay.

In the end it's all about how good the cel makes you feel in your solar plexus, not how much it cost you to get it.

[Gonzai]

Thanks guys - that is all truely helpful. I suppose I
should break down and watch CCS now. See,
without your comment, Sensei, I would never know
how far off some of those backgrounds are. At least
he states in his descriptions that the bg is non-matching.

I agree with you guys about the total setup, though. I only
have one cel like that, and I must admit it makes a huge
difference.

Also, I liked that all of you seemed to collect for various
reasons and not the same. Thanks alos for pointing out
that all the cels were released, hence why so many (of
what I think are cute cels) that are not being bid on.

Everyone who responded has a great CCS gallery. You all
were exactly who I was hoping would respond!!

Thanks again!!

[safetygirl]

How lucky to find this discussion as I'm starting out on my CCS purchasing. ^__^

I have my favorite scenes and characters, and battle costumes. I'm a sucker for Kero-chan and Suppi, but I love them all. It's also a series where the animation seems consistantly pretty. However, I like it that the prices seem to range all over, making it a bit easier to start into. One day I'll get my breathtakingly lovely Yue cel.... and many, many funny Kero-chan expressions. :lol:

[graymouser]

Well, I started to answer this thread a little while back but as soon as I pushed the submit button I was disconnected from beta. I guess I can try again.

1. What, in your opinion, makes a cel collectible, when there
are so many to choose from??

It is more a matter of individual preference. I have to like the colors and characters' facial expressions. I also strongly prefer a matching background.

2. Since I know very little about CCS, tell me about the cards?
Does the cel having a card in it make it more valuable, the
rarity of the card, or is it the beauty of the cel along with the card.

Like others have said, cels with the cards in them are not necessarily more sought after. Personally, I tend to avoid the cels with the cards. I have gotten to like the card spirits though. They come in a nice variety of colors and body types. I found once I started collecting them, I keep looking for others that I don't have yet.

3. Is the scene very important to you? I have seen some cels
from the same scene in different people's gallery, which appear
rare to me, but not sure if they are or not.

There are definitely scenes in the show that I find especially touching. A prime example is when Touya surrenders his powers to Yue. That said, I will probably never collect a cel from that scene. Although it is very emotional, I don't find the cel sequence artistically appealing.

4. Is the character that you are drawn to?? Again, I know nothing
about the series, other then the artwork is beautiful, so what
is it about the characters that makes them collectible?

I would like to collect at least one cel of each of the main characters. I assume that Yue, being the prettiest, is the most collectable. I could be wrong though. I don't pay a lot of attention to who's popular and who isn't. Personally, Touya is my favorite character. I like how he pretends to be the mean big brother while keeping a close eye on Sakura.

5. Finally, are you drawn to OP cels, movie cels, or just the
regular cels the most?? I really think some of the movie
cels are gorgeous, as well as the OP and regular.

I will buck the trend and say that I am mainly interested in cels from the TV show. I have no particular interest in the OP cels or movie cels.

[bulma_gt]

can I still post my reply? I don't have many cels though

1. What, in your opinion, makes a cel collectible, when there
are so many to choose from??

In the case of CCS I'd rather choose cels with my fav characters or the scenes I like the most (and that I can afford). To be honest I don't like much collecting cels with the kids, and maybe the only kid I could collect cels from are Eriol because of his past as Clow.

2. Since I know very little about CCS, tell me about the cards?
Does the cel having a card in it make it more valuable, the
rarity of the card, or is it the beauty of the cel along with the card.

Some people like to get them, but Im not one of them. Im not usually attracted to the cards or their animated form.

3. Is the scene very important to you? I have seen some cels
from the same scene in different people's gallery, which appear
rare to me, but not sure if they are or not.

I'd say yes as there are some nice and important scenes (the Yue/Touya scene must be one of the most wanted by all the CCS female fans).

4. Is the character that you are drawn to?? Again, I know nothing
about the series, other then the artwork is beautiful, so what
is it about the characters that makes them collectible?

OH yes! As I said before Im not too keen to collect cels of kids - in spite of the beauty of the design of the whole anime - and I preffer to collect cels of the adults of the serie. Probably the only cels with a kid I could go after could be Eriol because of his past as Clow, but then I'd preffer getting cels of Sakura's dad, Yue and Clow of course.

5. Finally, are you drawn to OP cels, movie cels, or just the
regular cels the most?? I really think some of the movie
cels are gorgeous, as well as the OP and regular.

In the case of CCS no, Im not much interested in the OP cels. I don't care if it's a regular or a movie cel, if I like it (and it's affordable) I go for it.