Hey Everyone!!!

Prince Vegeta · Post by **Prince Vegeta** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:08 am

BleedingOrange wrote:Everybody loves Vegeta at first.... until they realize much later that he sucks. He is not a good fighter, he loses just about every fight he was ever in. The reason I say he is a good "warrior" is because he actually wants to fight and is ruthless when he can actually win. But Gohan is a better "fighter" at that time. Of course much later on he isn't because he never trained. But I'm talking SSJ2 Teen Gohan here.

It sounds like you haven't even watched the series yet or if you have then you might wanna watch it again

. First off almost all of the major battles that took place in dbz were won collectively. If it wasn't because of a group effort then everyone would've gotten killed. Most importantely Vegeta saved everyone's life in every saga more than gohan, goku or anyone else ever did. So Vegeta was more of a warrior than anyone else and if it wasn't because of him then everyone would've been dead from the start. SSJ2 Gohan didn't really do squat. In the Bojack movie, he freaking passed out after getting a nice beating.....then goku had to come back to earth in order to advice him and tell him what to do. In the battle against Cell, Gohan got his dad killed and then cried about it. Again if it wasn't because of Goku then he would've been useless. On top of that it was again becuase of Vegeta and the rest of the group that gohan could defeat cell.
With that said, gohan is a pretty interesting character and i do think that his character is nothing less than awesome. But he never was a better warrior than Vegeta. What good does strength do if you can't even use it.
In conclusion....vegeta never needed his dad to fight and he won more battles ON HIS OWN than the rest of the group put together.
I think what you're trying to say is that Gohan had more potential than Vegeta as a SSJ2 in the Cell saga and the Bojack movie. And i'll give you that much credit. But Gohan never was a better fighter than Vegeta.

Now with that said.....king kai is pretty kool :bubbles

Cheers Bud

BleedingOrange · Post by **BleedingOrange** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:37 pm

Yeah, that's basically what I meant. Vegeta just cannot attain that kind of power, which is why he can't win a lot of battles. And I have watched the series quite a bit... and Vegeta loses a lot. lol. He does defeat a bunch of enemies in the Namek/Frieza saga though. However, most of the people he kills before he meets Goku are so less powerful than him that he didn't really NEED to fight to kill them. His only real problem is he doesn't have the power he needs at the time he needs it... when people like Gohan or Goku so convieniently (i know i spelled that wrong) have it.

and also... I was just pointing out that Gohan wouldn't have had the chance to kill cell if Vegeta hadn't distracted him. Piccolo, Tien and the other's efforts certainly weren't doing it. Of course, even after that, Goku had to scream DO IT NOW for Gohan to do it.

Gohan IS cool, I love that guy, especially TEEN SSJ2 Gohan! But at the end of day he is no warrior... and an alright fighter (by technique). As far as power goes though (or potential)... which is what I really meant by fighter in my last posts... he has a ton of it... somewhere. lol.

hyelakingsfan · Post by **hyelakingsfan** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:46 pm

You guys all know that all of you love both ssj2 gohan and majin vegeta, there is no real dragonball fan that doesnt like both of them because any real dragonball fan loves both of them. This post wasnt about who was stronger it was just who did you guys like better. Well i think that Majin Vegeta won this one. Everyone just post one or the other and lets count how many people like ssj2 gohan better or who likes majin vegeta better.
Me probably Majin Vegeta but tomorrow maybe ssj2 gohan

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:12 pm

SSJ2 Gohan could have beat cel... What seems to get in every Saiyans way is cockiness - or something random...

E.G. - Gohan Wanted Cell To Suffer - and allowed cel a window of opportunity (to Blow himself up)

Goku could have beat Buu - but he wanted Vegita to have a go (When he was SSJ3) - therefore he wasted time - and his energy depleted.

Vegita could have defeated Cell Form 2 - but wanted to see the ultimate form.

It always ends up being a group effort - not because people aren't powerful enough (though sometimes this might be the case -nothing comes immediately to mind )
But because someone has stuffed something up, wasted time, wanted to show off their power... etc etc.

Think about it - unless I missunderstood at the time - and granted haven't watche DBZ for a year now -

Gohan's power was cut in half. His initial fight with cell - Vegita noted that Gohan did a massive Kamehameha - without breaking a sweat.

When cell came back - Gohan had already fought, and took a blast for Vegita... he stated that his power was cut in half to Goku (during the Final Kamehameha) Now even though his power was cut in half - he did hold his own against cel in his ultimate final mega last thank god form.

Vegita gave Gohan the window of Opportunity to Finish off cell -
anyone agree? Dissagree? - I have typed this while speaking on phone \ so not concentrating 100%

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:21 pm

See... In Terms of who do you like better....
I began to actually enjoy Vegita more in the Buu Saga... a little more in the Cell Saga (specifically against Androids, and his fight with cel form 2, and the fact he distracted cel)
but the growth of Gohan in the Cell Saga I enjoyed much more- I am a sucker for the father son bonding thing, Gohan's doubting - and then the whole history of Gohan's hidden power. It really had a lot of weight with me.

Vegita I began to appreciate more in the Buu saga - espcially his fight with Buu - and the Sacrifice, it was then I was able to more enjoy him from the cell and Saiyan Saga's....

Okay - now I am just too tire to make sense

Prince Vegeta · Post by **Prince Vegeta** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:22 am

Hey Nathan

I would have to say that i disagree with some of the things that you mentioned. I think overall the cockiness thing does indeed have a great effect on who wins the battles, but the one thing that i definitely disagree with is that SSJ3 was in no shape or form able to defeat buu. That was basically a translation problem by funimation. In the original version Goku is actually trying to beat buu and he's not able to come even close to beating him. But then again i don't expect more from funimation....they have ruined basically everything that they can get their hands on.
Also i don't recall gohan giving cell a chance to blow himself up....as far as i remember, gohan tried to beat cell with everything that he had but since he could not bring out his hidden potential he caused goku his life.

I do agree with you that the whole father and son bonding theme was awesome and i totally loved it too. But if you haven't checked out the original version of the dbz series then i definitely recommend it. It's basically a whole different story. Also the characters are shown in a different way. For example, the funimation version makes goku out to be this soft hearted sissy....an example of this was when goku let vegeta go in their very first fight. The funimation translation was that goku let vegeta go because killing him was not the right thing to do or something along those lines....however, in the original version, goku lets vegeta go because he wants to fight vegeta again so that he could kill him fair and square and without any help from his friends. So If you watched it the way it was meant to be watched then you might change your point of view about the characters and maybe even get to like vegeta more than the rest of the gang.

I mean i started loving vegeta's character in his first fight with goku....especially in one scene where he throws a defeated goku off of this clif. Vegeta then defeats gohan and then throws him besides goku and tells him to go die beside his father......then when goku tries to hold gohan's hand, vegeta breaks goku's ribs in front of gohan. I know it's kind of harsh but that's what a warrior is supposed to be like. I mean at least he did not have to go crying to king vegeta in order to unleash his powers.

Again with that said....gohan is an awesome character and definitely one of the more interesting ones on dbz. He's just not the koolest

WOW....this is the longest post i've ever had

. Awesome

Shampoo · Post by **Shampoo** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:25 am

vegeta66 wrote:Hey Nathan

I would have to say that i disagree with some of the things that you mentioned. I think overall the cockiness thing does indeed have a great effect on who wins the battles, but the one thing that i definitely disagree with is that SSJ3 was in no shape or form able to defeat buu. That was basically a translation problem by funimation. In the original version Goku is actually trying to beat buu and he's not able to come even close to beating him. But then again i don't expect more from funimation....they have ruined basically everything that they can get their hands on.
Also i don't recall gohan giving cell a chance to blow himself up....as far as i remember, gohan tried to beat cell with everything that he had but since he could not bring out his hidden potential he caused goku his life.

I do agree with you that the whole father and son bonding theme was awesome and i totally loved it too. But if you haven't checked out the original version of the dbz series then i definitely recommend it. It's basically a whole different story. Also the characters are shown in a different way. For example, the funimation version makes goku out to be this soft hearted sissy....an example of this was when goku let vegeta go in their very first fight. The funimation translation was that goku let vegeta go because killing him was not the right thing to do or something along those lines....however, in the original version, goku lets vegeta go because he wants to fight vegeta again so that he could kill him fair and square and without any help from his friends. So If you watched it the way it was meant to be watched then you might change your point of view about the characters and maybe even get to like vegeta more than the rest of the gang.

I mean i started loving vegeta's character in his first fight with goku....especially in one scene where he throws a defeated goku off of this clif. Vegeta then defeats gohan and then throws him besides goku and tells him to go die beside his father......then when goku tries to hold gohan's hand, vegeta breaks goku's ribs in front of gohan. I know it's kind of harsh but that's what a warrior is supposed to be like. I mean at least he did not have to go crying to king vegeta in order to unleash his powers.

Again with that said....gohan is an awesome character and definitely one of the more interesting ones on dbz. He's just not the koolest

WOW....this is the longest post i've ever had . Awesome

wow...
what a long post...

you deserve a cookie and gold star for it! lol

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:44 pm

What I meant with Gohan was that when he initially turned SSJ2 - he fought easily against cel - instead of flattening him he toyed, at one stage Goku yelled at Gohan to finish him off - but Gohan's reply was something along the lines of - I'll let him suffer for a while...

I think he had the power then - to defeat Cell even in his final form.
If you watch each fight in DBZ (discluding movies) you'll notice that something always ends up interupting a fight when someone is at their maximum.

In Terms of SSJ3 - I am more inclined to agree with you - I was going on the fact that Goku said that he could have beat Kid Buu - he said that to Vegita at one stage in the fight between Buu and Vegita... (Vegita allowing Goku time to power up again) Vegita couldn't believe Goku didn't fight at his fullest at the beginning (that's from the english translation)

and when Goku was fight in SSJ3 against Buu in his fat form - he commented that he wasn't defeating Buu because he had to let the others do that (meaning I guess he couldn't fight their battles any more - because he was dead)

but in the end I'd really have to watch that part again to make a better comment...