OK...I'm looking to frame a few anime cels I have...but I don't have any backgrounds for the at the moment.
I'm curious as to the poll results and peoples reasons for their answers.
I'm also curious...is it better to matte only what the camera sees? (no holes, no sequence numbers, no unpainted outlines)?
Or is it better to matte the ENTIRE cel (holes, numbers, etc)
or....the entire image but without the holes or numbers showing.
I really don't know the proper protocol on this one.
I know one of the questions that will come up is regarding possible fading if part of the image is covered. ----After talking with the framing store owner I don't think that with the proper glass...any damage will occur for over 100 years. And personally, I don't think anything I have framed will stay framed for that long.
Ideas? Comments?
They are all VERY much appreciated!
marie:)
fetish4minx
Question about Framing and Matting...mostly regarding BKGs
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fetish4minx
- Kishin - Fierce God
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I always crop when framing, but as little as possible. If you're doing a
custom matting job, I would say to go just over the edge of the paint. It
just looks better than having the rough edges showing. In fact, I had to
have my BGC2040 pan cel redone by the framer because they didn't do
the matting like I had wanted on the first try.
Be careful where you hang your cels. Even with the proper UV glass, you
do not want to put it in an area that gets a lot of light. They will fade. I have
a cel which I put in an area which got indirect sunlight and over about half
a year, I saw visible degradation in the line quality.
As for the bg's, that's totally a matter of your tastes.
What I do is this: I have a set of 11x14 frames/mats and I do my own
framing. If I have a bg for the cel that fits in the frame, I use it. If not,
then I use a plain white sheet of acid-free paper. Since I do everything
myself, then I swap out the cels every few months so that I have fresh
ones to look at it and none gets long-term exposure to light. However,
this doesn't work well if you have odd-sized cels, but standard sized ones
work well with this system.
custom matting job, I would say to go just over the edge of the paint. It
just looks better than having the rough edges showing. In fact, I had to
have my BGC2040 pan cel redone by the framer because they didn't do
the matting like I had wanted on the first try.
Be careful where you hang your cels. Even with the proper UV glass, you
do not want to put it in an area that gets a lot of light. They will fade. I have
a cel which I put in an area which got indirect sunlight and over about half
a year, I saw visible degradation in the line quality.
As for the bg's, that's totally a matter of your tastes.
What I do is this: I have a set of 11x14 frames/mats and I do my own
framing. If I have a bg for the cel that fits in the frame, I use it. If not,
then I use a plain white sheet of acid-free paper. Since I do everything
myself, then I swap out the cels every few months so that I have fresh
ones to look at it and none gets long-term exposure to light. However,
this doesn't work well if you have odd-sized cels, but standard sized ones
work well with this system.
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Wendy
- Himajin - Get A Life
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I used to have some of my cels framed, but not anymore.
I too saw definite line fading, even with taking all the precautions, so I took them out their frames.
But I guess how you want your cel framed is all a matter of personal taste.
Personally I do not like "uncropped" cels. I said it before, but I don't think that's the way the cel is supposed to be shown. I also think it diminishes the beauty of the image.
But that's my opinion.
I too saw definite line fading, even with taking all the precautions, so I took them out their frames.
But I guess how you want your cel framed is all a matter of personal taste.
Personally I do not like "uncropped" cels. I said it before, but I don't think that's the way the cel is supposed to be shown. I also think it diminishes the beauty of the image.
But that's my opinion.
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star-phoenix
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Here is what I'd do.
If someone has the same cel with the original backgroun, I'd get it laser copied. If that doesn't work, then get a handpainted (or copy) background that is as close to the original as one can find.
Me personally, I am not a very huge stick when it comes to backgrounds. If they make the cel look great, then why not?
As far as line fading goes, I do see them with all my cels. But, I do see them less occurring in the cels that I framed. Then again, all cels that I frame I put them on a wall that is COMPLETELY out away from the sun's view at all times and just keep the bedroom light off when I am not there. Don't know about white light and its effects on paint, but generally, lines will fade if they are too warn or in too much light.
If someone has the same cel with the original backgroun, I'd get it laser copied. If that doesn't work, then get a handpainted (or copy) background that is as close to the original as one can find.
Me personally, I am not a very huge stick when it comes to backgrounds. If they make the cel look great, then why not?
As far as line fading goes, I do see them with all my cels. But, I do see them less occurring in the cels that I framed. Then again, all cels that I frame I put them on a wall that is COMPLETELY out away from the sun's view at all times and just keep the bedroom light off when I am not there. Don't know about white light and its effects on paint, but generally, lines will fade if they are too warn or in too much light.
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sensei
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As always, I find the word "just" to be misleading. I collect cels and sketches. It's just something I do. I just like getting cels from series I love. And it's just a nice treat to get something from a major scene in a major series.
If you go to a good framing shop and show them what you have to frame, I can guarantee that the framer will be fascinated by the challenge of finding the mat with the exactly right color to set behind the cel to complement the image. They're used to doing this with the frame color, and then being able to customize the bg of the image itself pushes them into artistic nirvana.
I got an insight into this when I framed a CCS cel as a Christmas present for my daughter. We went through a series of options for bgs, none of which really seemed to do anything for the image. Then we tried a light green and the expression on the cel's face changed. We went back to the tan we'd been considering, and then tried the green again, and the expression changed again. I remember the framer (who saw it as clearly as I did) commented, "Well, we know which background she wants."
Yes, I know it was an optical illusion, caused by the color making certain tints in the cel stand out more prominently and changing our visual impression of the cel's gestalt etc. etc. But it's a spooky phenomenon that I've seen several times since, and I think once you try it, you'll still want the original or copy bgs, but you'll never use "just" before "colored paper" again.
For the rest (briefly, and just my preference):
I crop out the holes and numbers and unpainted parts when framing the object. The frame is a replacement for the TV or movie screen anyhow. (Interestingly, I like to leave them in with scans ... but that's not what you're asking.)
Possible fading? Probably depends on the light and situation. I've had one that was kept in a dark corner away from windows that has faded slightly but not seriously. And I've had one that I had in my office behind UV resistent glass that faded seriously after just one year. I suspect the "100 years" you were told was overstated. Yes, UV glass is a must, but I'd still treat the framed item as fragile.
Just my 2 cents.
If you go to a good framing shop and show them what you have to frame, I can guarantee that the framer will be fascinated by the challenge of finding the mat with the exactly right color to set behind the cel to complement the image. They're used to doing this with the frame color, and then being able to customize the bg of the image itself pushes them into artistic nirvana.
I got an insight into this when I framed a CCS cel as a Christmas present for my daughter. We went through a series of options for bgs, none of which really seemed to do anything for the image. Then we tried a light green and the expression on the cel's face changed. We went back to the tan we'd been considering, and then tried the green again, and the expression changed again. I remember the framer (who saw it as clearly as I did) commented, "Well, we know which background she wants."
Yes, I know it was an optical illusion, caused by the color making certain tints in the cel stand out more prominently and changing our visual impression of the cel's gestalt etc. etc. But it's a spooky phenomenon that I've seen several times since, and I think once you try it, you'll still want the original or copy bgs, but you'll never use "just" before "colored paper" again.
For the rest (briefly, and just my preference):
I crop out the holes and numbers and unpainted parts when framing the object. The frame is a replacement for the TV or movie screen anyhow. (Interestingly, I like to leave them in with scans ... but that's not what you're asking.)
Possible fading? Probably depends on the light and situation. I've had one that was kept in a dark corner away from windows that has faded slightly but not seriously. And I've had one that I had in my office behind UV resistent glass that faded seriously after just one year. I suspect the "100 years" you were told was overstated. Yes, UV glass is a must, but I'd still treat the framed item as fragile.
Just my 2 cents.
Hi
When I get my Cels framed I used a 2 inch and I think once a 3 inch matt to cover up the holes on the Cel, I am getting another Cel framed at the moment which will have a 2 and a half inch matt also with UV glass which stops about 98% of the UV rays getting into the frame but reading some replies to this topic I am kind of worried now because in my room there is no where which gets no direct sunlight, my window takes up about 80 or 90% of my wall so the rest of the walls get a lot of direct sunlight all the time, and even more now that it doesn’t get dark until about 9pm so now I have no idea what to do because I don’t want them fading
When I get my Cels framed I used a 2 inch and I think once a 3 inch matt to cover up the holes on the Cel, I am getting another Cel framed at the moment which will have a 2 and a half inch matt also with UV glass which stops about 98% of the UV rays getting into the frame but reading some replies to this topic I am kind of worried now because in my room there is no where which gets no direct sunlight, my window takes up about 80 or 90% of my wall so the rest of the walls get a lot of direct sunlight all the time, and even more now that it doesn’t get dark until about 9pm so now I have no idea what to do because I don’t want them fading
The simple truth is cels exposed to any amount of light will fade, no matter what protection is taken. The best preserved cels I've seen in two years have all been stored in cel books in a cool dark closet.
Then begins the war.
Why spend money on anything if no one can see it and it sits in a closet?
Buuut, displaying it will make it probably fade a lot quicker so why spend money on something you're gonna ruin?
Buuuut, why spend money on anything if no one can see it and it sits in a closet?
...etc etc...
I'm a poor college kid and can't afford frames anyway...so I took the lazyman's approach and display my cels through the world wide web and keep the physical guys in a closet. Just easiest and less stressful for me...
Then begins the war.
Why spend money on anything if no one can see it and it sits in a closet?
Buuut, displaying it will make it probably fade a lot quicker so why spend money on something you're gonna ruin?
Buuuut, why spend money on anything if no one can see it and it sits in a closet?
...etc etc...
I'm a poor college kid and can't afford frames anyway...so I took the lazyman's approach and display my cels through the world wide web and keep the physical guys in a closet. Just easiest and less stressful for me...
"I actually really liked that game till it caught a blaze ha." - WhiteTrashShayno on Teleroboxer
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sensei
- Moderator and Admin-in-waiting
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I don't think that's lazy ... that's exactly what I would say.Startyde wrote:Why spend money on anything if no one can see it and it sits in a closet?
Buuut, displaying it will make it probably fade a lot quicker so why spend money on something you're gonna ruin?
Buuuut, why spend money on anything if no one can see it and it sits in a closet?
[snip] I took the lazyman's approach and display my cels through the world wide web and keep the physical guys in a closet.
The cels miss being part of a Louis XVI boudoir or a Trumpesque decor featured in Modern Architecture Flaunt (forget the actual title, anyhow my wife subscribes to it, and we have fun dogearing the pages and drooling over rooms filled with antique furniture "from Sothebys" with dahling little Monet or Picasso canvas accents). At least one of Stem Cels' items belongs framed and hung in a grand banquet hall over an oriental-style breakfront with gilded bare-breasted griffons and a live string quartet playing "The Triumph of Don Juan" nearby.
But, alas, cels are fragile as butterfly collections, which is part of their sakura charm. Web-based galleries of scans seems the ideal compromise between protect and share.
Just two cents more.
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monkeyboy
- Shikaisha - Moderator
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Didn't vote, I've done most of the questions on your poll list. Just not the first or last question.
Also on the Rs forum I posted about using gold leafed paper as a background. I've seen this done to a cel and it is awesome!
Or if you have access to a place, check out a store that sells hand made Japanese papers. Some of those can look wonderful behind a cel. The wood background used on my Rs gallery pages is a scan of some of that kind of paper.
Also on the Rs forum I posted about using gold leafed paper as a background. I've seen this done to a cel and it is awesome!
Or if you have access to a place, check out a store that sells hand made Japanese papers. Some of those can look wonderful behind a cel. The wood background used on my Rs gallery pages is a scan of some of that kind of paper.
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graymouser
- Kuwabarakuwabara - Oh My God!
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I have a number of cels framed and I do not have the matching bg for them. I frame anything that is too big for the largest Itoya portfolio. I have had some framed for nearly four years now and have not noticed any problem with line fading.
As for backgrounds, I picked out an acid free color mat. I've been happy with the results. In one case I think its was an improvement over the original one.
My Escaflowne hanken was used for a poster. The poster had a dark metallic red background that caused Dilandau to blend in so much, it is hard to see him. Instead I used an off-white mat as the bg and he stands out like he should (IMHO). I used this photo for the other framing thread, but here it is again.
http://itamejihada.net/other_scans/dragonslayers.jpg
I'm sorry about my poor photography skills, but you get the idea.
As for backgrounds, I picked out an acid free color mat. I've been happy with the results. In one case I think its was an improvement over the original one.
My Escaflowne hanken was used for a poster. The poster had a dark metallic red background that caused Dilandau to blend in so much, it is hard to see him. Instead I used an off-white mat as the bg and he stands out like he should (IMHO). I used this photo for the other framing thread, but here it is again.
http://itamejihada.net/other_scans/dragonslayers.jpg
I'm sorry about my poor photography skills, but you get the idea.
I am going with have the cels framed with a solid color background. I find that sometimes a solid color can bring out the details in a cel that otherwise may be obscured by a "busy" background." The other side of argument is that it is not permanent. Unless sealed with some sort of dust cover on the back, opening up a framed cel is not all that hard, and a background can be added at some future date.
I also like to see the reg holes and number covered with a matte, though covering unpainted lines and the edges of the paint is kind of a personal choice. I have seen instances where having the camera view looks best to me, and instances where seeing the entire image looked good. Kind of a hard choice in some cases
I do recommend looking at a double front matte, and if the cel is large enough, a triple matte. The extra coloring and depth will make it worth it.
I also like to see the reg holes and number covered with a matte, though covering unpainted lines and the edges of the paint is kind of a personal choice. I have seen instances where having the camera view looks best to me, and instances where seeing the entire image looked good. Kind of a hard choice in some cases
I do recommend looking at a double front matte, and if the cel is large enough, a triple matte. The extra coloring and depth will make it worth it. 
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ReiTheJelly
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Awwww, Sensei! You flatter us!sensei wrote:At least one of Stem Cels' items belongs framed and hung in a grand banquet hall over an oriental-style breakfront with gilded bare-breasted griffons and a live string quartet playing "The Triumph of Don Juan" nearby.
...does living in a cel book under a computer hutch count? *lol*