I have a set of Hellsing prod setti that I've been debating about having signed (by VAs or anyone associated with the show).
Autographed cels?
-
Wolfgirl917
- Anime Geek
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:38 am
- Location: Watertown, MA
- Contact:
-
JWR
- Kitten Rescuer - Moderator
- Posts: 2822
- Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:40 pm
- Location: Eagle Rock , California
- Contact:
Welcome to Beta Wolfgirl917Wolfgirl917 wrote:Thanks. Glad to be here.
I have a set of Hellsing prod setti that I've been debating about having signed (by VAs or anyone associated with the show).
The discussion in this thread is about having autographed cels for sale and not what someone has in their own personal collections. There is nothing wrong with having a cel, sketch or setti autographed if that is something that will have meaning for you personally.
"Like the wind crying endlessly through the universe, Time carries away the names and the deeds of conquerors and commoners alike. And all that we are, all that remains, is in the memories of those who cared we came this way for a brief moment." Harlan Ellison
-
indy
- Juuyaku - Executive
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:32 pm
- Location: closer each day
- Contact:
several ways to approach this one.
from a value point of view- more than likely it probably degrades the value most of the time. could block image smear affect the cel itself basicaly takes the item out of pristine (wel as close as cels can get) condition (this is the baseball card debate, is a signed rookie card worth more or less if it is signed)
personal point of view-up to the person I have a couple cels signed one is directly on the cel but that's not going to leave me so I'm not worried about what another thinks of it or how it affects the value. the other is on a layer. (blank acetate over the image) or you could float a paper behind if your looking from a value standpoint and don't want to affect it.
as for who signs the cel- another personal choice i think. character designer, animator of that cel probably a safe bet for most people. (it's like haveing an artist sign a painting) as for voice actors thats purely personal. i think it comes down to who the individual veiws as the character and how they connect with them. (thinks of the 7-11 commercials and all I see is how bad spike needs money) either way i would say unless your going to keep a cel best to do an add ons on a seperate layer.
from a value point of view- more than likely it probably degrades the value most of the time. could block image smear affect the cel itself basicaly takes the item out of pristine (wel as close as cels can get) condition (this is the baseball card debate, is a signed rookie card worth more or less if it is signed)
personal point of view-up to the person I have a couple cels signed one is directly on the cel but that's not going to leave me so I'm not worried about what another thinks of it or how it affects the value. the other is on a layer. (blank acetate over the image) or you could float a paper behind if your looking from a value standpoint and don't want to affect it.
as for who signs the cel- another personal choice i think. character designer, animator of that cel probably a safe bet for most people. (it's like haveing an artist sign a painting) as for voice actors thats purely personal. i think it comes down to who the individual veiws as the character and how they connect with them. (thinks of the 7-11 commercials and all I see is how bad spike needs money) either way i would say unless your going to keep a cel best to do an add ons on a seperate layer.
It would have to be a pretty ugly signature on a cel for me to consider it degrading the artwork. Conversely, I'm pretty picky about what signatures I'd consider as enhancing the cel. I'd be more inclined to go after signatures for the voice actors (both English and Japanese) that I really liked for a character since for me, the voice is an integral part of the character. I don't really pay attention to producers and character designers etc for anime series, although there are some manga artists/creators I'd love to have sign some of my cels (a la Watase Yuu, Naoko Takeuchi, any of the Clamp girls etc)
I don't have a clear cut answer for this question, so I didn't vote, but I do have strong opinions on this topic. The answer is: it depends.
BACKGROUND INFO
I bring shikishi or limited edition posters to be signed. Also, most companies provide nice printed shikishi at all the major cons for their celebrities.
However, I asked Kawamoto sign one of my top Faye cels. I usually would not have cels signed, but from observations of other autographs he has done, I know that he is really careful about where he signs it (he spent 4 minutes deciding where to sign on the key cel that I handed him), so it does not detract from the art. He was the character designer, so like someone has mentioned, it is like an artist signing his own work. And who is not a fan or his body of work?
I didn't have an extra layer for the autograph, and now I kind of regret it because I've heard how the ink might degrade the cel. So far, it doesn't look like it's eatin' it away or anything though.
It does bring a special meaning to me personally because I can relive the memories of that particular con and how excited I was to meet one of my idols when I look at that cel.
At last count, I think I have two other signed cels, so I guess I'm leaning to the "no sig" side.
ON PURCHASING SIGNED CELS
I don't agree with mangaka signing cels unless they were included in the anime staff -- I would bring a manga artbook, a manga art poster (no bootlegs), or the original manga for them to sign (yes, I'm picky). However, I would consider buying a cel signed by them, because mangaka autographs are harder to get.
I have noticed on YJ that people usually get a lower-quality cel signed by popular Japanese talent, which then raises the value of the cel. Unless the Japanese talent is one of my all-time favorites (i.e. Megumi Hayashibara, Nobuteru Yuuki, etc.), I wouldn't go for it.
I would never buy a cel with an autograph by the American dub VA, nor let American dub VAs sign a cel. They didn't originate the role, was not part of the original production process in Japan, etc. I think it actually decreases the value of the cel immensely and zeroes out all appeal, but this is because I personally think the majority of dub actors are terrible.
BACKGROUND INFO
I bring shikishi or limited edition posters to be signed. Also, most companies provide nice printed shikishi at all the major cons for their celebrities.
However, I asked Kawamoto sign one of my top Faye cels. I usually would not have cels signed, but from observations of other autographs he has done, I know that he is really careful about where he signs it (he spent 4 minutes deciding where to sign on the key cel that I handed him), so it does not detract from the art. He was the character designer, so like someone has mentioned, it is like an artist signing his own work. And who is not a fan or his body of work?
I didn't have an extra layer for the autograph, and now I kind of regret it because I've heard how the ink might degrade the cel. So far, it doesn't look like it's eatin' it away or anything though.
It does bring a special meaning to me personally because I can relive the memories of that particular con and how excited I was to meet one of my idols when I look at that cel.
At last count, I think I have two other signed cels, so I guess I'm leaning to the "no sig" side.
ON PURCHASING SIGNED CELS
I don't agree with mangaka signing cels unless they were included in the anime staff -- I would bring a manga artbook, a manga art poster (no bootlegs), or the original manga for them to sign (yes, I'm picky). However, I would consider buying a cel signed by them, because mangaka autographs are harder to get.
I have noticed on YJ that people usually get a lower-quality cel signed by popular Japanese talent, which then raises the value of the cel. Unless the Japanese talent is one of my all-time favorites (i.e. Megumi Hayashibara, Nobuteru Yuuki, etc.), I wouldn't go for it.I would never buy a cel with an autograph by the American dub VA, nor let American dub VAs sign a cel. They didn't originate the role, was not part of the original production process in Japan, etc. I think it actually decreases the value of the cel immensely and zeroes out all appeal, but this is because I personally think the majority of dub actors are terrible.
-
weyrlady
- Kishin - Fierce God
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Contact:
The only time I got cels signed was when Hiroyuki Morioka, the author of my favorite series, was at Otakon. I asked him to sign four of my cels after one of his panels, and he was thrilled- he'd never seen cels from his shows before, and he grinned a lot as he signed each one in a different color, and a different style (two are "normal" English autographs, one is kanji, and one is hiragana).
I got three of my lower-end CotS cels signed, and one of my favorites. In the case of the three lower-ends, I think the signature very definitely enhances the image. It helps to balance them, and makes the cel itself more interesting. I'm really glad, because now I enjoy looking at them more. For my favorite shot, it was purely a personal thing- the autograph doesn't add to it, nor does it take away from it, but I like having it there. (Edit: See Krafty's post below for a great explanation I agree with as to why I like having it.)
Because it was such a great experience, the signed cels have more value to me, and if I were to sell them, I'd price them higher. If I were looking at a signed cel for sale, I'd similarly expect the price to be higher. While I might not have the personal experience of getting that cel signed, some one did. And I do believe a signature has value in and of itself. I'd probably buy a signed cel, but I'd have to like the cel image itself first.
And hey, it's not like you can't wipe off a signature pretty easily if you don't like it.
I got three of my lower-end CotS cels signed, and one of my favorites. In the case of the three lower-ends, I think the signature very definitely enhances the image. It helps to balance them, and makes the cel itself more interesting. I'm really glad, because now I enjoy looking at them more. For my favorite shot, it was purely a personal thing- the autograph doesn't add to it, nor does it take away from it, but I like having it there. (Edit: See Krafty's post below for a great explanation I agree with as to why I like having it.)
Because it was such a great experience, the signed cels have more value to me, and if I were to sell them, I'd price them higher. If I were looking at a signed cel for sale, I'd similarly expect the price to be higher. While I might not have the personal experience of getting that cel signed, some one did. And I do believe a signature has value in and of itself. I'd probably buy a signed cel, but I'd have to like the cel image itself first.
And hey, it's not like you can't wipe off a signature pretty easily if you don't like it.
Last edited by weyrlady on Wed May 04, 2005 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Weyrlady
Frozen Moments - My Main Gallery!
http://www.dragonweyr.com/cels
Rubberslug Gallery (for the best of the best):
http://weyrlady.rubberslug.com
Frozen Moments - My Main Gallery!
http://www.dragonweyr.com/cels
Rubberslug Gallery (for the best of the best):
http://weyrlady.rubberslug.com
-
ashenfairy
- Kishin - Fierce God
- Posts: 342
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:16 pm
- Location: A city by the lake
- Contact:
I think in most cases the signature detracts from the cel. I know I would be very unlikley to buy one no matter how nice it was if it was signed by the VA. As much as I appreciate the work of an awesome voice actor they have very little to do with why I'm purchasing a particular cel.
I'd be much more inclined to purchase one signed by the character designer. The gorgeous character designs are the reason I'm collecting the cels for the most part. I've seen a number of shows I like but wouldn't collect becasue the artwork is ugly IMO.
As for the mangka signing them I could go either way it really depends for the most part. it really depends on the artist and how I feel about them like, I love CLAMP so they could sign even my highest end pieces without me having too much of an issue. But, I would be less happy with Ryo Mizuno getting anywhere near my Lodoss OVA Ashram.
Overall like any other aspect of collecting it's a matter of personal preference. But, if you're planning on selling or think you might be inclined to sell down the road I'd definately have a top sheet signed instead of the cel itself so that if some people (like myself) aren't fond of signatures, but, love the cel the artwork is still perfectly intact. Of course if you're getting lower end cels signed it changes things bit but then the value rests mostly in the signature anyway as the piece itself had little value to begin with and thus nothing for a signature to detract from.
I'd be much more inclined to purchase one signed by the character designer. The gorgeous character designs are the reason I'm collecting the cels for the most part. I've seen a number of shows I like but wouldn't collect becasue the artwork is ugly IMO.
As for the mangka signing them I could go either way it really depends for the most part. it really depends on the artist and how I feel about them like, I love CLAMP so they could sign even my highest end pieces without me having too much of an issue. But, I would be less happy with Ryo Mizuno getting anywhere near my Lodoss OVA Ashram.
Overall like any other aspect of collecting it's a matter of personal preference. But, if you're planning on selling or think you might be inclined to sell down the road I'd definately have a top sheet signed instead of the cel itself so that if some people (like myself) aren't fond of signatures, but, love the cel the artwork is still perfectly intact. Of course if you're getting lower end cels signed it changes things bit but then the value rests mostly in the signature anyway as the piece itself had little value to begin with and thus nothing for a signature to detract from.
-
In_Gabriel_We_Trust
- Drama King
- Posts: 3298
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:29 am
- Location: Brussels
- Contact:
If cels are anything like comics, having it autographed will decrease the value of the cel.
However, getting a cel autographed is "proof" of an hopefully pleasant encounter with someone you admire. It is a personal moment.
However, getting a cel autographed is "proof" of an hopefully pleasant encounter with someone you admire. It is a personal moment.
[img]http://snapshot_city.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1ginjicool.jpg[/img] [url=http://snapshot_city.tripod.com/celstructure/][img]http://snapshot_city.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/2ginjifun.jpg[/img][/url]
The Doctor : … and then, just to finish off, I’m going to wipe every last stinking Dalek out of the sky !
Dalek : But you have no weapons ! No defenses ! No plan !
The Doctor : Yeah ! And doesn’t that scare you to death ?
The Doctor : … and then, just to finish off, I’m going to wipe every last stinking Dalek out of the sky !
Dalek : But you have no weapons ! No defenses ! No plan !
The Doctor : Yeah ! And doesn’t that scare you to death ?
I only have 1 cel signed by a VA and director BUT it was a machine made repro not an actual cel. 
Im w/ duotrouble on this one.. unless its the actual japanese character designer or the creator I dont see the point of having a VA or dubbed VA signing the actual cel. What if you wanna sell it later ? 
Maybe the new seller doesnt want the signature on there... d'oh! 
Plus there are times the VA mess up w/ a quote or sign too close to the character w/ the sharpie and scratch it out or something
(Yep ive seen it happen)
That would drive me up the wall!
But dont get me wrong! If I ever came across a Naruto genga/cel w/ Kishimoto auto or a Ranma cel signed by Takahashi I would buy it in a heartbeat
Im w/ duotrouble on this one.. unless its the actual japanese character designer or the creator I dont see the point of having a VA or dubbed VA signing the actual cel.
What if you wanna sell it later ? Maybe the new seller doesnt want the signature on there... d'oh! Plus there are times the VA mess up w/ a quote or sign too close to the character w/ the sharpie and scratch it out or something
(Yep ive seen it happen)
That would drive me up the wall!
But dont get me wrong! If I ever came across a Naruto genga/cel w/ Kishimoto auto or a Ranma cel signed by Takahashi I would buy it in a heartbeat
-
Krafty
- Custodian of Records
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:59 pm
- Location: England
- Contact:
*Sits here stunned* I'm amazed at the responses so many of you have given, I didn't think the topic would turn out like this!
To have a cel signed, especually by the director, writer, producer, or character designer is the greatest honour. I only have three signed cels but I'd love more and it should NEVER be on a separate layer because that has nothing to do with th artwork then.
When a senior staff member signs a cel thay are directly endorsing their creation and it's a pleasure to see that they would stand by their work and have such a direct pressence with the particular piece.
If I could get a cel signed by any director, I'd offer up my best cel to him and cry tears of joy if he put his stamp on it.
I was shocked at the suggestion two members made about 'ugly' signatures- whatever a signature looks like THAT is the essence of the person or physical projection of them and their creative hand that made the anime. There's no such thing as an ugly signature and the style would have absolutely no relavance to me. In fact, I would tend to see that comment as an insult on the person. This may seem a little 'spiritual' (or crazy) but I really believe in it.
I would have been under the impression that any signed artwork is worth more than an unsigned piece. As it was said, it's like a watercolour painter signing their final piece, it has authenticity and a romantic aura about it. Imagine the stages of production and how the director had to endure meetings, deadlines and criticism but got to work in a creative, challenging environment with many respected artists and draftsmen to physically create that masterpiece you hold in your hands. The cel is a testament to that process and a hand-written name declares- this is real, this is the final product.
Granted, my only qualm might be if the signature was placed right across the whole image, but this couldn't happen because the artists are thoughtful and appreciate that they don't want to mess up the shot.
I know many of you purists will disagree with what I've said but hey, that's a discussion for you
To have a cel signed, especually by the director, writer, producer, or character designer is the greatest honour. I only have three signed cels but I'd love more and it should NEVER be on a separate layer because that has nothing to do with th artwork then.
When a senior staff member signs a cel thay are directly endorsing their creation and it's a pleasure to see that they would stand by their work and have such a direct pressence with the particular piece.
If I could get a cel signed by any director, I'd offer up my best cel to him and cry tears of joy if he put his stamp on it.
I was shocked at the suggestion two members made about 'ugly' signatures- whatever a signature looks like THAT is the essence of the person or physical projection of them and their creative hand that made the anime. There's no such thing as an ugly signature and the style would have absolutely no relavance to me. In fact, I would tend to see that comment as an insult on the person. This may seem a little 'spiritual' (or crazy) but I really believe in it.
I would have been under the impression that any signed artwork is worth more than an unsigned piece. As it was said, it's like a watercolour painter signing their final piece, it has authenticity and a romantic aura about it. Imagine the stages of production and how the director had to endure meetings, deadlines and criticism but got to work in a creative, challenging environment with many respected artists and draftsmen to physically create that masterpiece you hold in your hands. The cel is a testament to that process and a hand-written name declares- this is real, this is the final product.
Granted, my only qualm might be if the signature was placed right across the whole image, but this couldn't happen because the artists are thoughtful and appreciate that they don't want to mess up the shot.
I know many of you purists will disagree with what I've said but hey, that's a discussion for you
Out of the gloom a voice said unto me;
"Smile and be happy, things could be worse".
So I smiled and was happy
and behold;
things did get worse...
"Smile and be happy, things could be worse".
So I smiled and was happy
and behold;
things did get worse...
-
LinaLoN
- Senpai - Elder
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:20 pm
- Location: Out of My Mind
- Contact:
I have several different reasonings for why I have some of my cels autographed and some I will NOT or have had sign on the cel bags around it.
Why I do- I guess I have an inferiority complex or something. I don't really stand out and tend to be ingored by people and when I go to get autos for some reason I just can't stand for that. ANYONE can have a dvd or poster signed but if it's a voice actor that I LOVE I like to be someone that they remember. Even if they don't remember my name, they match up the awesome cel that they signed with my face and in that brief moment I feel like I have made a connection with them. Cels that I KNOW I'll be keeping for as long as I can; I will have them signed directly, or cels that I bought which already had defects and faded lines I'll have signed.
Why I don't- If it's going to take away the VALUE of the cel then I won't have it signed. For example my Chrono Crusade Production Rilezu I REALLY wanted to get them signed by one of the voice actors and one by the creator but becuase they are post-production and made by the company, I just couldn't bare to have them signed directly; so I kept the protective layer on the cel while they signed it.
SO that's my reasonings, weither they may sound vein or not. Other people may dissaprove and may not want to chance with their cels... that's fine whatever floats their boat. To me, it's special and worth it but that's just my opinion not the absolute truth of the matter. If I'm babbling I'm sorry, it's 1:35 AM and the computer screen's getting blurry... time for bed
Why I do- I guess I have an inferiority complex or something. I don't really stand out and tend to be ingored by people and when I go to get autos for some reason I just can't stand for that. ANYONE can have a dvd or poster signed but if it's a voice actor that I LOVE I like to be someone that they remember. Even if they don't remember my name, they match up the awesome cel that they signed with my face and in that brief moment I feel like I have made a connection with them. Cels that I KNOW I'll be keeping for as long as I can; I will have them signed directly, or cels that I bought which already had defects and faded lines I'll have signed.
Why I don't- If it's going to take away the VALUE of the cel then I won't have it signed. For example my Chrono Crusade Production Rilezu I REALLY wanted to get them signed by one of the voice actors and one by the creator but becuase they are post-production and made by the company, I just couldn't bare to have them signed directly; so I kept the protective layer on the cel while they signed it.
SO that's my reasonings, weither they may sound vein or not. Other people may dissaprove and may not want to chance with their cels... that's fine whatever floats their boat. To me, it's special and worth it but that's just my opinion not the absolute truth of the matter. If I'm babbling I'm sorry, it's 1:35 AM and the computer screen's getting blurry... time for bed
My cat Temperance I call her Tempe for short.
My cat Seeley is a Sailor Moon fan, too!
I didn't anticipate on having a black female cat and a white male cat or I would have named them Luna and Artemis... oh well.
