Haggling: OK or not OK?

Topics of anime/other animation art and collectibles.

Do you think haggling (negotiating a price up from a lowball offer) is acceptable?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:19 pm

Yes
26
51%
No
0
No votes
Depends
25
49%
 
Total votes: 51

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sensei
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Haggling: OK or not OK?

Post by sensei »

I'm posting this to get some feedback on several odd (odd to me, anyhow) exchanges I've add with people who list cels as "for offer." I should say that none of these exchanges were odder than any other, so if what I say seems to apply to another Beta member, please be assured that I am not talking about you in particular, since my experience with you was matched by several others. So I'm more reacting to a general feeling of cognitive dissonance rather than a seething grudge against any individual. OK? :bow :friends: /sry

OK: the issue. Is there a general feeling among cel collectors that haggling, i.e., negotiating a purchase price from a lowball offer upward, is impolite?

When I collected antiques (well ... old stuff), I soon learned that it was normal to offer a price that you knew was about a third less than ticketed price, or what you felt might be the going price for such an item. The seller, typically, would politely refuse the offer, but return with a counteroffer. You'd raise your offer, the seller would lower the counteroffer, and within a minute or so, if both parties were serious, they'd agree on a price.

Either that, or the seller would say, no, the price on the ticket is solid, or else say that he would not consider any offer below $X.xx. Maybe you really wanted it, and you'd give in; or maybe you'd move on to find a better bargain.

I've applied this strategy in the past to cels, and usually with success. But lately, I've been getting what seems a paradoxical response, which says, in essence, "Yes, I hear your offer, but I've decided I like the cel, so it's not available after all for any amount you offer." (That's a logical reaction to an out-of-the-blue offer for a cel in a gallery ... but not, I felt, to one put up as "available for offers.")

If the offer I've made is too low, I thought some normal responses might be:

"Deal. Send me the money at [address]" :)

or

"No, I won't sell it for that amount, but I might for $X.xx."

Or

"No, my minimum for this item is $X.xx, and I won't take a cent less."

Or even,

"Thanks for your kind offer; however, someone else has offered me more, so unless you raise your offer, I'll sell it to that person." (I should note that people who have used this move have left it up to me how much I should raise my ante ... canny ... but I have been willing to play this game when I really want the item.

But it seems odd to reply, "No, I won't accept your offer and no, I won't make any counteroffer or even ask you to advance your offer, because I've changed my mind about taking offers on this item." Even if my offer was way out of line in the seller's mind, it seems it would be politic to come back with a counteroffer, even if it's double or triple what my offer was.

Maybe I'll take the hint and not bother the seller any more; but just maybe I'll repent my penurious ways and say "Deal." :)
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fetish4minx
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Post by fetish4minx »

My personal experience overall has been a mix.

When I make an offer on a gallery...it's usually something I have no idea the value on (no one really collects what I do.)

I've had some..

"great! send money" responses

some...

"you offered $20, but it's worth $600" (no counter offer...just more of an "obviously out of your ballpark" comment).

some...

I've taken this item off of "offers" and put back in my gallery

and some

You offered $20...I paid $60...let's compromise at $40.

Also with offers, you never know the full reason why someone is willing to part with a cel. Sometimes they desperately need money. Sometimes they just need room. Sometimes they simply tire of a piece. You never really know all the details or reasons. Perhaps someone put their gallery up for offers to earn X amount of cash...a cel sold right before you sent you email and now they no longer need the $$$ so they are no longer interested in selling (I've had this happen, also).

I appreciate both your frustration at the variety of response as well as your maturity in handling them.

What do other say? I'm curious, too what experiences long-term collectors have come across as I consider myself very naive and new to the hobby.

marie :)
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HotIce
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Post by HotIce »

i'd rather haggle with people.... or at least get some kind of response back. when i've given an offer on a cel, i put serious time and concideration into the response (be it accepting it, or offering another offer). Sooooo, when i send a counter offer, i'd like either another counter offer or at least a : "Sorry that's too rich for me" or something. When I message a request, i again put alot of time thought, and even research into offering a price... i'd like some kind of "sorry too low" , "sorry, i could never sell" blah, -something- along those lines for a response.

I don't mind haggling for a lower/higher price, doesn't bother me at all... i would just like some kind of response to offers/counter offers.

(BTW, if i've ever ignored/missed one of your [your meaning betta person who is reading this post] than forgive me... i dont like it being done to me, so i'm sorry if i've done it myself.)
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Post by Katrina »

I don't see any problem with haggling. First of all, to get angry at a person just because their offer was way less than you wanted is ridiculous. (Especially if it doesn't have a price tag on it.) People who are new to cel collecting often have no idea about pricing. Just polietly say you're looking for an offer more like $X, and that's that.

I've had people make offers lower than what I asked for, and I wasn't insulted at all. One person got very apologetic about her offer, and I told her to stop worrying about it and just make the offer - there was nothing to apologize for.

As long as they're not being demanding, I'll either give a yes or no, and that'll be it.
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Post by zerospace »

I said that it depends... Personally, I don't see anything wrong with haggling - especially if a gallery has specifically been opened for offers. However, sending an unsolicited offer on something in a gallery that hasn't been opened for offers changes things in my opinion.

If I haven't said that anything in my gallery is open for offers and I receive a demanding, ridiculously low offer on something in my gallery, I think I'd feel just a little insulted--but, then again, there's always folks who are new to collecting who just don't understand or know much about cel prices. I have received some pretty ridiculous (and rude) offers in the past on things in my gallery, so in that regard, I speak from experience.

If I've opened my gallery or put some cels up for offers, it generally means I'm willing to haggle -- otherwise, I'd just put prices on them or list them on ebay.

Just my two yen... :)
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Post by yukineko »

I really don't like using 'offers' on cels at all unless it's some uber rare and expensive cel-- I find the whole guessing game kind of annoying and wonder why it wasn't just put on auction if they wanted people competing for the highest price. That's why I was at a bit of a loss this month when I *knew* I had to sell some things but I couldn't figure out what I could bear to part with. So I asked people to inquire about what they wanted and then I'd be put on the spot to figure out if I'd be able to part with it-- if I could, then I'd let them know what I'd sell them for and that was that.

If however, I was selling a cel that I think is good enough to do the 'offer' thing: If someone made an offer that was too low I would politely tell them that I couldn't sell it for that price and that would be that. If I named a price that I'd sell it for, than why didn't I just sell it rather than accepting offers? If they e-mailed me again with a higher offer I'd honestly be a bit annoyed (isn't the point of offers to tell me the higest you'd pay from the get go), but still let them know if I'd sell it to them for that price or not.
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Post by Sakura-chan »

sensei wrote:I'm posting this to get some feedback on several odd (odd to me, anyhow) exchanges I've add with people who list cels as "for offer."
What an interesting topic :emb...

I think haggling is what offers are all about. You can't expect the seller to accept every offer they get. And you can't expect the buyer (especially new ones) to offer the right amount every time. I myself am very happy to receive offers and never insulted even when they are way lower than what I paid :). I always try to work something out if possible.

The part where I feel a bit guilty though /... is when I get an offer and I'm not sure how much to counter-offer for the cel. Especially with cels that I know I may have overpaid :? . So the question is, is it okay to back away and say that you're not sure anymore... or is that an insult :l ?
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Post by Wolfgirl917 »

I don't see anything wrong with negotiating a price or haggling either. Keep in mind the value of a cel is a very subjective thing-everyone values cels differently. Its the essence of collecting. :wink:

I'm not a big fan of "Up for Offer" cels with no minimum or general price. I have no idea what the seller has in mind. When I do send an offer in cases like this, I'm afraid they'll be insulted if its too low. I don't mean to be, its just beacause I don't know the ballpark of what they are looking for. :?

If I'm selling I'll give an outright price or will say "Up for Offers starting at $x.xx". I always try to let people know where they stand and what I'm looking for.

All I look for is some kind of polite communication and try to extend the same courtesy. :)
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Post by Krafty »

Sakura-chan wrote: The part where I feel a bit guilty though is when I get an offer and I'm not sure how much to counter-offer for the cel. Especially with cels that I know I may have overpaid :? Is it okay to back away and say that you're not sure anymore... or is that an insult?
Before you advertise a cel for offer, it's important to have a rough selling price for each item you're offering so you can judge whether or not the offer is fair. There have been a couple of occasions when I had no idea how much an item was worth and I was happy with the first offer I received. I judged that merely on what I thought it was worth to me.

Sakura, I think that indecisiveness can seem unprofessional. As a seller, you're the one in charge and the customer has to abide by your rules. However if you're messing the customer around, I think that's rude.

Going back to Sensei's original point, is it impolite to haggle? I'd say no, as long as the offer is fair. As the seller, you can always decline or return a counter-offer as discussed in the preceeding posts.
Last year I received a couple of offers where the buyer demanded that I sell to them at a low price and that's the only time I've been annoyed. I don't believe that I overcharge for anything (with the price I originally paid/exchange rates/international shipping/Tax etc taken into account) so that was hurtful. Other than that, I'm happy to accomodate whenever possible.
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Last edited by Krafty on Tue May 31, 2005 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Wendy »

I agree…I too think haggling is what making offers is all about.

Of course; the seller is hoping to get the highest offer possible for it, maybe even much more than what he/she originally paid, and the buyer is hoping to get a great deal because maybe the seller is desperate to sell or perhaps even may not know what he/she’s selling.

Personally I think it’s more about how you write your messages. I always try to be polite and friendly in my messages. Or at least the same way I would like to be talked to when making a person an offer; especially if it’s a really high offer.

I don’t really like making offers either. I’m afraid to make a stupidly low offer or, even worse :wink: , a way too high one :D

But what really rubs me the wrong way are collectors who only say cels are for offer while they do not have any intention of selling, just because they are curious to know what offers they would get.
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Post by Moop »

Wolfgirl917 wrote:Keep in mind the value of a cel is a very subjective thing-everyone values cels differently. Its the essence of collecting.
Exactly. There was a recent thread which pointed out an IY cel that sold for about $1800, although its sequence mates have sold for closer to $250.

If a seller doesn't give a minimum of what they are hoping for, then they should certainly not respond poorly when a potential buyer raises the offer after their first one is rejected. After all, the point of haggling is to ensure that everyone walks away happy. :)
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Post by jcaliff »

I've only once made an offer on a cel in a gallery that was put up for offers. I knew how much the cel had been bought for because I saw the end of auction, so I made what I thought was an appropriate offer based on that. The owner wrote back with a price list for each cel. On top of which, the prices listed were about 4x the original cost of the cels, so I gave up on them pretty quickly. And I was left wondering why the owner even bothered to solicit "offers" if they already had a price set for each cel. It still doesn't make much sense to me. Ever since that one "offer" experience, I've decided to never buy from people that way. If you want to sell something, put a price on it. As a buyer, I don't like to feel like I'm being put on the spot to try to figure out what price you really want.

I've also had people make unsolicited offers on cels from my own gallery, even though it says in bright red text that my cels aren't for sale. I always write back and politely refuse, of course.
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Post by Not Sir Phobos »

I'm a haggler, I love to haggle.

I can even haggle at department stores.

I see nothing wrong with haggling because everything has a negotiable price.

We tried to buy a house once and of course what we threw out was a lowball offer. The agent said no and sorry we couldn't afford it and didn't leave a counter offer (she was a rookie of course). We had to call her back and set up a meeting to make another offer ourselves. To which she said the same thing. We asked if she had a counter offer and she hadn't even talk about it with the seller. It was very frustrating.
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Post by yukineko »

I can even haggle at department stores.
Eh... I never quite understood folks who haggle at retail stores. For one, the person you're usually haggling with is but a lowly cashier jockey (I should know, I was one!) who really doesn't have any say in what the prices are and would get in some serious trouble if they did sell the item for a lower price. Prices in department stores are usually set by corporate, not by anyone that works at that particular store. In the end it's kind of a stressful situation for the cashier because they have to balance not trying to make the customer angry while telling them no.

But that's getting off topic. jcaliff hit on many reasons why I don't like the whole 'offers' system at all from both a seller's and buyer's POV.
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Post by star-phoenix »

I also think haggling is okay. What I don't like is when I get offered $20 for a $600 cel and then they keep on contacting me to try and sell it to them for that price.

I mean, sure, they can haggle any time, but I can always refuse to sell. :D
I have noticed some sellers get very pissed off when you start haggling with a cel, especially if they are taking a big loss on it as it is.
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