Something worth thinking about

[blueheaven]

Certainly is a terrible shame that so many had to die before a government would concede defeat. Harry Truman wrote it like this: "How could I tell the widows and orphans of this war that I had the power to end it before their loved ones were taken?" Truth is, he couldn't. He was dealing with a fanatical regime that sent innocent men, women, and children to slaughter. I often think, in terms of this event, about how restrained our government was. That may sound odd, but it's true. We could have dropped this thing in the heart of Tokyo. We chose the most remote and least populated locations we could and kept the death toll to a minimum. Definitely a horrific event for all involved, but it also could have been worse under different circumstances.

[JWR]

I often think, in terms of this event, about how restrained our government was. That may sound odd, but it's true. We could have dropped this thing in the heart of Tokyo. We chose the most remote and least populated locations we could and kept the death toll to a minimum. Definitely a horrific event for all involved, but it also could have been worse under different circumstances.

I hate to say this but that is wrong. Tokyo was on the list of targets that day. The weather over the city of Hiroshima being clear was the determining factor. They wanted to observe the true effects of the bomb and in truth no thought was given to dropping it on a "smaller, less populated city" for humanitarian reasons.

Read Comander Paul W. Tibbets books he wrote about the Enola Gay & Hiroshima which is my source.

[Ashura]

I often think, in terms of this event, about how restrained our government was. That may sound odd, but it's true. We could have dropped this thing in the heart of Tokyo. We chose the most remote and least populated locations we could and kept the death toll to a minimum. Definitely a horrific event for all involved, but it also could have been worse under different circumstances.

I hate to say this but that is wrong. Tokyo was on the list of targets that day. The weather over the city of Hiroshima being clear was the determining factor. They wanted to observe the true effects of the bomb and in truth no thought was given to dropping it on a "smaller, less populated city" for humanitarian reasons.

Read Comander Paul W. Tibbets books he wrote about the Enola Gay & Hiroshima which is my source.

I agree with JWR, I heard that was one of the main factor in the bombing of Hiroshima. So there were no " humanitarian reasoning" considered.



Wow, I feel slightly sick right now....I'm taking a break.

[blueheaven]

I hate to say this but that is wrong. Tokyo was on the list of targets that day. The weather over the city of Hiroshima being clear was the determining factor. They wanted to observe the true effects of the bomb and in truth no thought was given to dropping it on a "smaller, less populated city" for humanitarian reasons.

Read Comander Paul W. Tibbets books he wrote about the Enola Gay & Hiroshima which is my source.

Read the book as well. It was Kyoto that was in the original flightplan. The list went as such: Kyoto, Hiroshima, Kokura and Niigata. Kyoto was originally on the list, but was pulled due to hard fought objections by the secretery of war and replaced with Nagasaki. He(Stimson) believed that destroying such and ancient, and highly populated, area would embitter any further chances of US/Japanese relations. Stimson had visited there many times and found it a wonderful place. So Ashura, there was humanitarian reasoning taking place there. I never said Tokyo wasn't considered a target, but it wasn't on their original or final flightplan when the decision came down. That quote from Openheimer was from that book as well if I recall. He said it when he saw the Trinity test in July of 1945. So, yes, they were restrained in their ultimate decision.

[glorff]

I have read that the ultimate decision to drop the bomb was made because the Soviets/ Russians had notified the President that they would be entering the war in the Pacific theater soon and the government was afraid of the partitioning that had occurred in Germany happening in Japan and China, so they decided that it was worth the horrors in the long run if they could avoid future problems.

[blueheaven]

I have read that the ultimate decision to drop the bomb was made because the Soviets/ Russians had notified the President that they would be entering the war in the Pacific theater soon and the government was afraid of the partitioning that had occurred in Germany happening in Japan and China, so they decided that it was worth the horrors in the long run if they could avoid future problems.

That's a big part of it. Truman met with Stalin at the Potsdam conference and they hashed out the decision to give Japan an ultimatum. Truman had to the consider the invetibale losses suffered by the Allies when(not if) the invasion of Japan took place.

[Cloud]

What happened to it?

[Baakay]

*sigh*

I can't believe the words "humanitarian" and "atomic bomb" are being used in the same thread.

There is nothing humanitarian about destroying 140,000 people (which was the ultimate death toll.)


If the situation had been reversed, I can't imagine anyone saying "oh, it was so much more thoughtful of X country to destroy Boston rather than New York." Geez

We *are* responsible for learning from our past mistakes, on each side of all the oceans, so that we do not repeat them. What happened 60 years ago today was a horrible thing. I believe we owe it to everyone who died to respect that.

[blueheaven]

*sigh*

I can't believe the words "humanitarian" and "atomic bomb" are being used in the same thread.

There is nothing humanitarian about destroying 140,000 people (which was the ultimate death toll.)


If the situation had been reversed, I can't imagine anyone saying "oh, it was so much more thoughtful of X country to destroy Boston rather than New York." Geez

We *are* responsible for learning from our past mistakes, on each side of all the oceans, so that we do not repeat them. What happened 60 years ago today was a horrible thing. I believe we owe it to everyone who died to respect that.

Once again, Baakay, don't twist my words and get this thread off kilter and paint me as a bad guy. I said that there was "humanitarian reasoning" behind the decisions that went into the bombing. I really expected more from you and a bit more rational thought. But some things cannot be discussed rationally, can they? You brought up the point, so please don't be offended when someone interjects logic (logic that was not meant to offend, but enlighten) into the thread. If you are so touchy about this, then why did you bring it up? The plain truth is, it was terrible...but under different circumstances it could also have been much worse. The proof is in our relations with Japan today. The decisions that were made allowed us to rebuiled our relationship with them and become allies. Think that could have happened had we bombed Tokyo? Doubtfull. That's all I will contribute to this thread. I am very disappointed by that response, Baakay. I thought we understood eachother. I hope people can see that I was not downplaying the suffering that occured. I thought this was a thread for discussion. If anyone thought I was trying to play down the event, my apologies. I think most of you know me well enought that I would never do that.

[Cloud]

I didn't think you were interested.

[Baakay]

*sigh*

We *are* responsible for learning from our past mistakes, on each side of all the oceans, so that we do not repeat them. What happened 60 years ago today was a horrible thing. I believe we owe it to everyone who died to respect that.

Once again, Baakay, don't twist my words and get this thread off kilter and paint me as a bad guy. .

Woah! Nothing of the sort. I wasn't directing anything at you personally. If yours happened to be the post the word was used in, well, sorry. I honestly didn't even look at the names.

This is exactly why I wanted the thread to go away.

The above part of my post is what I believe. It's the 60th anniversary of a horrible thing and I believe we owe the spirits of those who died so terribly a little moment of respect.

Logic has nothing to do with it, I'm expressing an honest human emotion.
Be disappointed in me all you like.

[glorff]

[blueheaven]

Agreed

[Cloud]

I do not understand.

[irmgaard]

Concomitant article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 719995.stm