It has to be said. . .

[kisara]

And I just noticed that bottom portion of Joe's statement. It's EVERYTHING to politicize something like this. To analyze it, learn from it. So as not to repeat the same idiocy in the future.

[Not Sir Phobos]

You know what, President Bush is a human, he feels compassion just like everybody else. You cannot ever convince me that he cut the funding because he knew a catastrophy was comming. And furthermore I'm sure that 10.5 million dollars was all the money he could send at that moment.

Use your brain here people you are turning him into a monster. "This whole thing was his fault and he doesn't care because he's a monster" is all I hear from the anti Bush crowd.

He is doing everything in his power to rectify this situation. We all know there is rape, gangs, snipers, and looters running rampant in New Orleans and where is Bush? He's right in the middle of this not even wearing a vest!
Our President is there right now letting victims literally cry on his shoulder and here you guys sit passing the buck onto him.

I don't blame Bush for this mess. I'm a perfectly sane individual so I'm just goint to go ahead and blame Katrina.

absolutely nuff said

[Baakay]

Women are being raped and murdered left and right. Cops are getting gunned down. So what does Bush do, he sends them $10.5 million?! That wont even cover bandaids!

The correct amount of emergency aid issued by Congress was $10.5 BILLION

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/02/ ... index.html

I do agree more should be done but we do nothing by politicizing this tragedy.

Whereas most of the time I agree with you, Joe, in this case I think it's important that we do both -- give our best efforts to get those people out ... but be aware that some of the biggest assholes that have ever walked into an office are running the show.

To underscore my point I offer this. LISTEN to what this IDIOT says!!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4828771


Here's the overview:

He's asked by Robert Siegel when aid will reach the people at the convention center. The argument goes something like this:

1) We've taken food and water to the Superdome.
2) but we're talking about the Convention center here.
3) repeat 1
4) But Secretary Chertoff, there are at least three thousand people at the Convention Center, and many of them are dying because they have no food or water
5) repeat 1
6) Here, our reporter is on the other line, would you like to speak with him?
7) No, we can't be acting on the basis of rumors.

You're telling me the CNN footage from the past two days, by people who have reported from combat zones, is UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR?? Everyone in the frickin' country who has a TV has been able to observe what's going on!


Then the secretary says -- now, see if you can follow the logic here:

1) We can't move the food and water from the superdome to the convention center because there is water in the streets.

2) It's only eight blocks away.

3) We need the people to come to the designated drop off points to get aid.

Now...let's think about this for a moment... If they can't get the food and water 8 blocks in one direction, with their helicopters... how the HELL are the people who haven't had any nourishment in five days supposed to walk 8 city blocks to get to them??

As a matter of fact, if you look at some of the satellite photos, you can see that the big honking parking area beside the Convention Center is high and dry. Helicopters, anyone? That's a BIG parking lot. Don't give me this crap. He just didn't have a clue and if he hadn't seen it with his own eyes, it didn't exist.

The final moment of glory is that now it's these peoples' fault that they're dying because they chose to stay there.

Excuse the hell out of ME?!!

Sure, there is a percentage of the population who said "we ain't afraid of no hurricaine" and well, it's really on their heads. But the vast majority of folks didn't leave because they were already either homeless or dirt-poor and didn't have any WAY to get out!!!

Blaming the current situation on the poor planning over the last 200 years is almost as pointless (and uncaring, if I may say so) as blaming the people who had no way out.

People are freaking dying in New Orleans, the government has equipment that could have been being used for the past four DAYS to get these people out, the phone companies could have dropped microwave equipment and generators onto the highest building to set up some kind of communication, all of the tons and tons of aid that are pouring in COULD have been reaching at least SOME of the people.

The local government could not perform aid, Joe, because their stuff is sitting under 20 weet of water. THAT's why it was incumbent on the feds -- in particular, FEMA, to whom we all contribute part of our hard-earned income every month -- to get their freaking ASSES in GEAR and DO THEIR JOBS.

[kisara]

First, take a city with the highest murder rate in the country (last I heard anyway) and infamous gan violance, ignore it for a good while, then throw a tragedy like this on-top. . . No, I do not believe Bush is solely at-fault for this. I am not an idiot, I was raised in a very political family and I was always taught that it was my duty as a citizen to be aware of a governments actual powers, it's weaknesses and always, ALWAYS know that no one person is ever in-charge and you have the absolute right, under whatever circumstances, to speak your mind and say what is wrong when you see it.

Having said that. The President IS the fountainhead of the United States government, it is by his determination, his convictions, and his charisma that the other branches are made to move.

And this is what we have gotten with this administration. . .

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Hurrica ... 398&page=1

The thing that bothered me. . . we are once again saying, even though we had the information, "We just didn't think anything like this would really happen."

Sound familiar?

When are we all going to get our heads out of our asses and listen?

You can eitehr ignore something for the sake of keeping your own ridiculous convictions that lie in the silly determination to keep everything the same and safe and right. Or. . . you can speak-up, acknowledge what is wrong even if it was something in which you previously believed, and hope that you've done enough to move towards a change for the better.

PLEASE know that this is not directed towards anyone in-particular and it is not meant as a flame. It is one opinion in a discussion between many. A nice, CIVIL discussion.

[Baakay]

You know what, President Bush is a human, he feels compassion just like everybody else. You cannot ever convince me that he cut the funding because he knew a catastrophy was comming. And furthermore I'm sure that 10.5 million dollars was all the money he could send at that moment.

Use your brain here people you are turning him into a monster. "This whole thing was his fault and he doesn't care because he's a monster" is all I hear from the anti Bush crowd.

He is doing everything in his power to rectify this situation.

Nobody ever said he cut funding because he knew a catastrophe was coming, what kind of nonsense is that? I heard a rumor -- which I sincerely hope is just someone talking out their hat -- that someone diverted funding for the war, but who in their right mind would ever truly expect something this bad to happen?? Get real.


But... he is NOT doing everything in his power. He has the power to mobilze everything in the government's reach in such a situation, just by moving a pen and he hasn't done it until the past couple of hours. He could have done it days ago.

I don't believe he's a monster, I just don't think he is very aware.

And I resent the "use your brains" remark. I think it fair to say that I have been using my brains a great deal over the past few days, researching everything I could about this issue. Not likeing or agreeing with Cousin George has got nothing to do with intelligence, and the facts do not agree with the statement that he's doing everything in his power.

[Cloud]

You don't believe me.

[Shampoo]

Ok...
its obvious we are all feeling very saddened and angered
by the results of this disaster -- both human portion and
gov involvement in it.

But lets keep it friendly amongst ourselves as members
everyone.

I would hate for a flame war to abrupt over our
different opinions and political views.

*group glomp*

[kisara]

But lets keep it friendly amongst ourselves as members everyone.

I would hate for a flame war to abrupt over our
different opinions and political views.

*group glomp*

what she said.

*tackle-glomps*

Our we ever going to prove to ourselves that we are mature enough for adult-like conversation or just continually resort to personal jabs?

I'm personally rather tired of it. I love you all. I would like to talk to y'all as if we were all gathered around the coffee table, sipping beers and having a passionate discussion. DISCUSSION. Sometimes. . . . some of you are like the ones that want to get-up and toss the beer in someone's lap because they disagreed with what you said.

[Cloud]

Why would you want to do talk to y'all as is we were all gathered around the coffee table sipping beers and having a passionate discussion? Why don't you make an appointment.

[Baakay]

Yes, I agree.

I am VERY distressed about the situation, I don't believe things are being handled well, and I don't want to be told that I am wrong for believing that.

Expect emotionality.

I want our government to stop being defensive, just drop the attitude and roll up their sleeves and get to work -- just like everyone else.

And to show the teensiest bit of real compassion. -- I will say, however, that I am 100% convinced that when George actually saw the damage for himself, he DID feel compassion. I do believe that at the bottom line he's a good man. I'm not so convinced about the rest of his people.

[glorff]

The reality of all of this is that it takes a bit of time to assess the situation and plan a response. You can't just say "Everyone start towards New Orleans and we will figure it out as we go" They have to know what to load and how to get to where it is needed. The National Guard needs time to mobilize and reach their base before they can do anything. The communications companies need time to get what they need together and to the right spot.

All disasters work the same way. Everything is out of control for a week and then there is way too much of everything.

[Baakay]

. But in this instance, I really don't believe the outcome had to be what it is. They KNEW that such an event was going to lead to chaos, this was part of the report that led to the beginning of the reinforcement project.

Yes.

Sure, it's a dumb move to build a city in a hole. But the fact is that the city was built there and because it's a beautiful spot, it grew.

I saw discussions 20 years ago about how vulnerable the area was, and just exactly what the Army Corps of Engineers predicted would happen under such conditions.

They KNEW.

And for IGWT, that's a perfectly legitimate question to ask ("Didn't they ever notice there were hurricanes there before?"). They did, and they actually had experienced the actual hurricane-caused wind and water damage before.

The problem here isn't so much the damage from the actual storm -- remember them all heaving a sigh of relief because it didn't make a direct hit on the city -- but the fact that the levees broke. And THAT was a risk the government (at all levels) knew about for decades, or longer.

*sigh* of course, flinging blame is really pointless. My mantra for the past five days has been, and will continue to be, get off the dime and move what needs to be moved THERE!!

[RalphVboy]

I want our government to stop being defensive, just drop the attitude and roll up their sleeves and get to work -- just like everyone else.

And to show the teensiest bit of real compassion. -- I will say, however, that I am 100% convinced that when George actually saw the damage for himself, he DID feel compassion. I do believe that at the bottom line he's a good man. I'm not so convinced about the rest of his people.

I agree with you %110 Baakay. This whole catastrophe certainly warrants a significant view of our neglecting proper funding for reinforcing levees as well as plenty of other issues. But right now is not the time for all these government officials to do their standard "finger pointing" at each other. Indeed, they need to stop being defensive and playing the blame game. Their main focus/priority should be getting their rears in gear and providing every resource available to save as many people as humanly possible.

I can only hope that this disaster changes much of our policy in regards to necessary procedures in the event of natural disasters. It wouldn't hurt if it changed how the U.S. regulates funds for disaster relief as well. It hurts to feel powerless and not being able to help these people beyond offering my donations to certain charities. In the end though, my thoughts and prayers go out to all those directly effected by Hurricane Katrina ;_;

- RalphVboy

[kisara]

See. This is what bothers me about it. How much time and money has been spent to prepare for such an event?

Yes glorff, it may have been unrealistic to hope for everyone to make a quicker response. . . 4-years ago! We were supposed to be ready for something of this magnitude. The impossible response you were speaking of should have been made possible by this point.

We were tested. We failed.

And no baakay, I don't believe our President is "evil" either. I just think his real awareness of things kind of boggles the mind. And you are absolutely right. It has everything to do with the people around him. lol But HE did choose those people.

[Cloud]

Time is really only an abstraction.