Ebay auction won, but not?

darksuzaku · Post by **darksuzaku** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:47 pm

yep, i'm also with all of the thoughts of the people here.

The comissions on credit cards are mainly directed for big commerces, shops and companies that have comisions on the items they sell. The idea of a "service" that you give to the client is also true for big corporations and shops, but nothing of this applies to particular sellers like most of us here. We don't have a fixed commision when we sell items on ebay and many times we lose money.

Even if paypal is a service that costs money and someone has to pay for it , now that paypal has been integrated with ebay they should do a complete integration and waive the payment fees or consider them included in the final fee. As things are now it's not rare to find yourself paying more as paypal fees than ebay fees, and also that you are paying double fees..... But of course they will never do something like this... it's their money tree after all

as for when they contact you about an item that fails to comply their policy, well, it's not that they wait until the auction finishes or wait until someone tells them. Of course they can cancel your auction if someone tells them that you are surcharging, but they also have automated bots that scan the auctions analyzing posible faulty listings. Then it's just a matter of when/if the bot catches you or not. If you are caught by the bot someone will revise the auction and then cancel it. Of course this can apply to recently finished auctions but for sure they wouldn't do anything if the auction ended a few days ago as it would be too late.

Baakay · Post by **Baakay** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:05 pm

Late-coming bot is about the only thing that makes any sense... but why cancel the auction after it's finished? That I don't get. Maybe they think they're doing the buyer a service. As though the buyer can't read what's in the auction. *sigh*

Anyway I hope you two are able to complete the transaction satisfactorily with or without their help!

xKAKASHIx · Post by **xKAKASHIx** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:19 pm

Couldnt you in theory just put the fee "inside" the reserve bid....so like if you would accept $100 put the reserve price of 103.5 or $104 to cover for the fee hence side stepping the paypall fee?

or something to that extent...but then the fee would be taken out of 103.5...Or add it to the "shipping and handling fee" in the final price?

idk just my thought im prolly missing something.

Goldknight · Post by **Goldknight** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:30 pm

Ah....I've seen this happen before to auctions. I've seen so many people caught for the surcharge thing. As for charging for using paypal I agree in that normally the seller is responisible. However........if someone asks for a payment plan I charge extra because each time they make a payment through paypal then I take the hit for allowing them to spread it out. Does that make sense? Typcially I ask for money orders in that case, but some people prefer more of a paper trail which I totally understand. I would do the same as a buyer, but as a seller I will charge someone for that payment plan. I know......totally off subject, but I found it somewhat interesting to talk about.

Nene · Post by **Nene** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:37 pm

xKAKASHIx wrote:Couldnt you in theory just put the fee "inside" the reserve bid....so like if you would accept $100 put the reserve price of 103.5 or $104 to cover for the fee hence side stepping the paypall fee?

or something to that extent...but then the fee would be taken out of 103.5...Or add it to the "shipping and handling fee" in the final price?

idk just my thought im prolly missing something.

That's how you can officially get around surcharging and is, in my opinion, alot fairer to the buyer. You put all shipping and handling costs including Paypal charges (even if it's just a general estimate since afterall, the price of an auction is likely to rise from the starting bid) in the total shipping amount at the beginning of the auction.

That way the buyer and the seller's happy, and the seller doesn't have to mention charges in the description which is a gamble anyway and can't guarantee that they'll receive those charges. ^_^

darksuzaku · Post by **darksuzaku** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:49 pm

Nene wrote: That's how you can officially get around surcharging and is, in my opinion, alot fairer to the buyer. You put all shipping and handling costs including Paypal charges (even if it's just a general estimate since afterall, the price of an auction is likely to rise from the starting bid) in the total shipping amount at the beginning of the auction.

That way the buyer and the seller's happy, and the seller doesn't have to mention charges in the description which is a gamble anyway and can't guarantee that they'll receive those charges. ^_^

but if you charge $20 on shipping by surface mail for something that should only be $5 the bidders would not like the idea, they may even think that you want to rip them off.

also, adding the surcharges to the initial price or to the reserve is not always a good idea either. A higher starting price means a higher listing fee. Also, most bidders look for good deals, and a higher starting price doesn't help. Sellers keep the surcharges separate to make the starting prices attractive and if the winner is not going to use paypal then there's no need to apply them.

Wolfette · Post by **Wolfette** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:57 pm

It actually is illegal to pass along the surcharge to whoever purchases something from you when they pay with a credit card & Paypal.

Please note that the statement below is not aimed at anyone in particular.

The way I put it is this - if you choose to upgrade your account to premiere so people can pay with a credit card, you should not pass along those fees to whoever is buying from you.

Would you offer to pay extra to use a card at a gas station, grocery store, etc? No - because its convenient for you to be able to use it. Just like it is a convenience to have the money come to you through Paypal immediately.

I have two paypal accounts - one premiere and one personal. Do I prefer being paid on the personal? Of course ... but for those who want to use a credit card, I do not pass along the fees I'm dinked.

That's just me ..

BleedingOrange · Post by **BleedingOrange** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:57 am

I hate selling things on ebay.

eBay = Gay

However, I love buying stuff on ebay. lol. I always seem to have bad luck with sells. That's why I avoid it if possible. And I hate the paypal/surcharge deal as well. I wasn't aware of that rule, and I always thought about adding in a surcharge as well... just never did that. Guess it's a good thing I didn't!

Hope you and Remi work something out dbzredneck!

xKAKASHIx · Post by **xKAKASHIx** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:07 am

wolfette wrote:It actually is illegal to pass along the surcharge to whoever purchases something from you when they pay with a credit card & Paypal.

Please note that the statement below is not aimed at anyone in particular.

The way I put it is this - if you choose to upgrade your account to premiere so people can pay with a credit card, you should not pass along those fees to whoever is buying from you.

Would you offer to pay extra to use a card at a gas station, grocery store, etc? No - because its convenient for you to be able to use it. Just like it is a convenience to have the money come to you through Paypal immediately.

I have two paypal accounts - one premiere and one personal. Do I prefer being paid on the personal? Of course ... but for those who want to use a credit card, I do not pass along the fees I'm dinked.

That's just me ..

this isnt aimed at ne one in particular either...if someone has more info please correct me but...:
From what i have come to understand (through an accounting class) stores pay a fee to the CC companies to be allowed to accept credit card payments...which I am then sure is passed down to the consumers through pricing and whatnot...through paypal its just easier to see.

BUT i can be totally off...dont quote me!

darksuzaku · Post by **darksuzaku** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:25 am

xKAKASHIx wrote:this isnt aimed at ne one in particular either...if someone has more info please correct me but...:
From what i have come to understand (through an accounting class) stores pay a fee to the CC companies to be allowed to accept credit card payments...which I am then sure is passed down to the consumers through pricing and whatnot...through paypal its just easier to see.

BUT i can be totally off...dont quote me!

i quote you,

heh, well, that statement is preciselly what is not allowed.
stores pay to the CC company a % of every payment that is done with CC. They can't raise their prices to compensate it or offer discounts to people who don't pay with a CC.

xKAKASHIx · Post by **xKAKASHIx** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:00 pm

darksuzaku wrote:
xKAKASHIx wrote:this isnt aimed at ne one in particular either...if someone has more info please correct me but...:
From what i have come to understand (through an accounting class) stores pay a fee to the CC companies to be allowed to accept credit card payments...which I am then sure is passed down to the consumers through pricing and whatnot...through paypal its just easier to see.

BUT i can be totally off...dont quote me!
i quote you,

heh, well, that statement is preciselly what is not allowed.
stores pay to the CC company a % of every payment that is done with CC. They can't raise their prices to compensate it or offer discounts to people who don't pay with a CC.

whats to stop them from raising prices on everybody...when deciding what the price is to start wont factors like that be already figured in? Im not saying change the price right when the person pays, but before ne transactions have taken place...raise the price to compensate for the lose you project to lose...ie making a reserve higher before an auction?

Nene · Post by **Nene** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:49 pm

xKAKASHIx wrote:raise the price to compensate for the lose you project to lose...ie making a reserve higher before an auction?

I agree with you. I'm against surcharging for Paypal since I believe it's the seller's convenience to accept it. If it really bothers the seller, I believe they should either not take Paypal or increase the starting bid. If it puts people off bidding because it's too high, that's the seller's choice.

I spent alot of time on the Ebay forums when the rules about surcharging were announced and it was interesting to see the mixed views about it. What I said before about adding all charges into the shipping & handling is just what I read on the forums regarding what Ebay allowed and is what some regular sellers do instead of asking for a percentage. It doesn't make that much of a difference for smaller items since the fee is only about 3.14%.

When I sell on Ebay I just take it that I'll most likely get a buyer who uses Paypal and it doesn't bother me too much since I both buy and sell. I probably buy more than I sell so the sellers I trade with are hiking up just as many fees, probably more.

Just my penny's worth. ^_^

irmgaard · Post by **irmgaard** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:39 pm

It would appear than not many people on this board own or manage a retail business.

Regarding the cost/rules of accepting credit cards:

You are charged a fee for the rental of equipment, usually annually
You are charged a fee for the service, monthly
You are charged a fee per transaction, it varies depending on the card and the type of sale: on site, phone/mail, key entry, etc.
You are charged a percentage of the amount charged, which depends upon the card used

You are not allowed to charge a fee to the customer for this service.
You are allowed to offer discounts to customers using another form of payment.
(This is similar to the “no sales tax” sales, where the sales tax is, of course, paid; but it is paid by the business.)
This discount encourages the use of other forms of payment, but would not provide the outcome the seller was seeking in this instance. As the seller’s goal was not to receive payment in the form of a Money Order, but rather to receive not one dollar less the ending high bid. And it may not be allowed on Ebay, as I have not read that private business’ own rules.

A business is not required to accept credit cards, but then one greatly restricts the number of potential customers. If the items offered are several hundreds or thousands of dollars, that choice could be ruinous.

Of course one is allowed to heartily “bitch and moan” about the fees (which were just raised).

lys · Post by **lys** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:55 pm

irmgaard wrote: Of course one is allowed to heartily “bitch and moan” about the fees (which were just raised).

Yes we can, for now.

irmgaard · Post by **irmgaard** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:56 pm

And yes, those fees are just one of the many costs factored into the final retail price charged to the customer.