Cel condition and online auctions question

pixie_princess · Post by **pixie_princess** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:07 pm

Not sure if this belongs on this board. If it doesn't could it please be moved to the correct location? Thank you.

Recently, I purchased a cel on an online auction site. The number of layers, douga and the fact that it had a background were included in the listing. It mentioned in the same description that the douga were unstuck. It also mentioned in the same description what the numbers on the cel layers were. The seller had a high amount of positive feedback. Nowhere on the page did it say that anything was stuck to anything else.

Now, here is my question, is it already a standard assumption that the two cel layers will be stuck together, and that the bottom cel layer would be stuck to the background? I was rather surprised when I had recieved this cel. In my past experiences with other auction sites, purchasing from private collectors and purchasing at online stores, it has always been explicitly stated if anything was stuck to anything else. I've already contacted the seller about it to see what is going on, is there any other courses of action that I should be taking? Or should I just forget about it and let the subject drop? For details sake, the item in question is a cel from the last season of Sailormoon (1997- Toei). I do not wish to post any information about the seller because I do not want to point fingers, especially if it was an honest mistake.

Thanks everyone for your time.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:13 pm

If you wish to keep the cel then don't complain.

If you want to send the cel back then complain and get your money back.

That's the perfect solution, the decision is yours.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:26 pm

My experience has been that, while most US sellers will give you exact descriptions about the condition of the cel, background, sketches, etc., Japanese sellers will not always do this. Instead, many Japanese sellers will ask a buyer to refrain from buying the cel if they expect perfection. Some will also claim that their cel is in "used"(which, most cels are) condition and have some kind of "degradation"(that's the software translation term) in the line or paint quality.

With Japanese auctions, I expect to be informed as to what the sequence number, whether the BG is a copy, if the cel comes with the sketches and if they are freestanding and not stuck to the cel. I generally assume that the cel is either stuck to the background and that the layers are stuck together as well. There are very few cases where I've received a cel that did not feature at least one of the multiple layers stuck together. There are some sellers where it's safe to assume that the cel is not stuck to the background, but, for the most part, many of the sellers on YJ did not go the extra step of putting something between the bottom cel layer and the background/sketch. But, this kind of knowledge is something that you can only get through experience with that seller or conversely talking to someone who has purchased an item offered by that seller in the past.

Mandarake, however, is quite a bit better in stating the condition of a cel than your average YJ seller....to the point that, IMO, Mandarake overstates the damage on their items. Mandarake will generally tell you if a cel is stuck to the background, what the line quality is, if there is any chipping, if there are white humidity specks, etc. and this, along with the sequence number, will be posted underneath the picture.

If you feel that you were greatly cheated in your product, contact the seller or the deputy service that you purchased the item from and explain to them what happened. If nothing can be done, then, recall your problems with that seller and refuse to do business with them again.

iwakuralain16 · Post by **iwakuralain16** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:44 pm

I've bought a cel from a well known cel dealer and the cel be stuck to the background. Not completely stuck, but stuck none the less. I only paid $75 so I wasn't too upset about it because I would have bought the cel either way. LOL

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:47 pm

Maybe they simply forgot to mention it. When I sell on ebay, I'm usually listing several items at once. While I try to be careful what I write, sometimes things just slip through the cracks. In my case, I might easily forget to say two layers are stuck together. I'm not hiding anything. It was just forgotten.

I find that most auctions do state to "ask all questions before bidding". If you're concerned about it, just ask your seller. I've also found that most of the sellers out there are pretty friendly.

sugarcels · Post by **sugarcels** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:37 am

I recently bought a cel via Y!J, and when it arrived it had horrible line fading that was not mentioned in the auction

I still like it and obviously can't return it, but I do wish they would mention these things.

klet · Post by **klet** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:20 pm

Multiple layer cels are usually stuck, so I always assume that they are when I bid. It really doesn't affect the value of the cel or its condition.

I'd probably be a little upset if the background was stuck and the seller didn't mention it. In my experience, background are usually not stuck, and it will actually make the cel deteriorate quicker since the background material is probably acidic.

However, I don't collect from Toei too much. From what I understand, they are one of the worst studios as far as cel preservation goes. Out of all the series I collect from, my cels from Marmalade Boy (another Toei production) tend to be in the worst condition. All but one of the backgrounds are stuck, and they all have horrible line fading, especially in the face. So, it might be a more expected thing for SM cels to be stuck to the background. I'd still be mad, but like I said, it's not something I've come to expect since I don't buy many cels from Toei productions.

Maybe you can try asking for a partial refund? It might work.

Cordelia · Post by **Cordelia** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:03 pm

Usually cels with more than one layers tend to get stuck together and sellers do not mention this most of the time. However, if cel is stuck to background, seller usually would mention it coz this occurs less often.

I find that there are some sellers who do not give detailed description so I will ask them beforehand the condition of the cel, especially things that bother me like paint loss. A good seller will be happy to answer your questions. Of course, everyone's standards are different so be specific when you ask

If you are not satisfied with the cel, maybe you can email seller to resolve it. Klet's suggestion of a partial refund sounds gd.

Caroline · Post by **Caroline** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:32 pm

RoboFlonne wrote:If you wish to keep the cel then don't complain

i agree with roboflonne. i recently received a cel that had some paint chipping and was stuck to the sketch, but this wasn't mentioned at all by the seller. the cel is still 100% worth keeping so i thanked the seller and left it at that. my situation differs only slightly in that this particular sequence is usually damage/stuck to sketches. so, sometimes a little research does help to prevent these things.

pixie_princess · Post by **pixie_princess** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:44 am

Hi there. I just wanted to thank everyone for their help. I really do appreciate it, and it does help me feel more at ease about the whole situation.

I liked the suggestion about a partial refund. Given the seller's response, I don't think they'll consider it though, so I'll just be happy with the cel. hehh The seller responded that usually they don't mention it because things can change in shipping, and that the customer should ask before buying. So, in general, next time I'll ask the seller more nitpicky questions I suppose, and just hope they aren't offended

Lori.

klet · Post by **klet** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:48 pm

pixie_princess wrote:The seller responded that usually they don't mention it because things can change in shipping, and that the customer should ask before buying.

Well, that's kind of contradictory. Even if you ask before buying, there's a chance that it will change during shipping.

Actually, using shipping as an excuse is stupid, anyway. A proper seller will make sure that the cel is packaged in a way that it will not stick during shipping.

I personally put all my backgrounds in a separate bag to prevent sticking, and have plans to buy some non-acidic tape so that they'll stay lined up in my celbooks (plans I've had for about a year now

).