VTech

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:35 pm

Unfortuantely ZB, I think calling RF out will
only fan the flames. He doesn't seem to think
before he posts - EVER. Otherwise, why would
someone use the emoticon's he is using in a
topic this tragic. Your best bet is to ignore him
completely.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:04 pm

The gunman is a psycho. A moron. thoughtless. To take the lives of innocent people...and for what?

Zombie Bunny, I'm afraid you misread my post.

I said that it was the gunman's fault. I said that the problem is with thinking that the Gunmen are the victims. So you agree 100% with all my opinions.

What exactly did you think I meant?

Love will save the world!

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:24 pm

RoboFlonne wrote:Feel free to debate with me... I am not at all offended by what you say about me or about my opinions.

Opinions are fine, but getting your facts straight would be better. Then it would actually be a debate. School killings are not new. In fact, they've been around for well over 100 years. Long before the television was invented. In fact, the deadliest school-related incident in history happened eighty years ago next month.

RoboFlonne wrote:
The gunman is a psycho. A moron. thoughtless. To take the lives of innocent people...and for what?
Zombie Bunny, I'm afraid you misread my post.

I said that it was the gunman's fault. I said that the problem is with thinking that the Gunmen are the victims. So you agree 100% with all my opinions. What exactly did you think I meant?

Love will save the world!

And I said the same thing as well. But I also have the sense to know that things are not black and white.

Baakay · Post by **Baakay** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:25 pm

klet wrote:What scares me is that the shootings started at 7:15am, then even more people were shot at a different location at around 9:45am, and then 10:15am. What the hell were the police doing during those three hours?!!!!!

THAT's the real issue. As soon as I saw this I started smelling lawsuits. And I'm not meaning that to sound amusing either.

Someone was NOT on the ball. Or even in the same ballpark as the ball.

Yes, I feel quite certain that we're ready and prepared to deal with whoever lofts a nuke at us first. O_o We can't even deal with one guy with a handgun in a school with what, 20K students? 50? I don't know how big it is but sheesh.

It's so good that the world is a safer place now.

Oh, and... I don't see the point in lofting nastygrams at each other over this. It's a painful enough experience without adding to the indigestion.

*ponder* Later: I went back and re-read Roboflonne's post and I'm still surprised by the venomous responses. The essence of that post -- although it may have been tactlessly embellished with happygrams -- was that people need to be taught that violence is NOT an acceptable response to feelings of anger or what have you.

I think that's quite a fair and reasonable statement.

Unless, of course, one feels that violence is the way to go...

Bah. Not going there any more. It's already sad enough.

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:25 pm

I call it Hades. Is this a historical question?

Baakay · Post by **Baakay** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:27 pm

Cloud wrote:I call it Hades.

That's just scary, Cloud. Now be a good bot and go back to bed.

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:27 pm

Why now? OK I will try to be a good bot and go back to bed.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:47 pm

blueheaven wrote: Opinions are fine, but getting your facts straight would be better. Then it would actually be a debate. School killings are not new. In fact, they've been around for well over 100 years. Long before the television was invented. In fact, the deadliest school-related incident in history happened eighty years ago next month.

roboflonne wrote:Mass Murders in Schools have only begun.

I said that they have only begun, which means that they will only get worse unless the gunmen understand that it's not ok to kill..

Also the bath school bombings of 1927 was of a school board member who was angry and killed 45 people mostly children in the grades of second and sixth grade.

The school board member may have had a bad childhood or may have been wronged in life, but that doesn't mean he has the right to kill 45 children. /wah

p.s. If I write more then 2 sentences it may become confusing to most people... That's my problem and how come I can't be a writer....

blueheaven · Post by **blueheaven** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:49 pm

Baakay wrote:
*ponder* Later: I went back and re-read Roboflonne's post and I'm still surprised by the venomous responses. The essence of that post -- although it may have been tactlessly embellished with happygrams -- was that people need to be taught that violence is NOT an acceptable response to feelings of anger or what have you.

I think that's quite a fair and reasonable statement.

Unless, of course, one feels that violence is the way to go...

Bah. Not going there any more. It's already sad enough.

And no one has said anything to the contrary. What I took exception with was the idea that these kids are suicidal media whores. That's not the case. If it was about fame, then why kill themselves? They would instead be sending out messages and holding hostages. They would want a medium in which to express their feelings and get the attention they crave. My issue came when Roboflonne addressed me personally and called into question my knowledge of the situation. THAT's where I took offense. RF doesn't know a thing about kids or what they are thinking. And to say that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were not victims simply glosses over the cause of their rage by painting them as dead psychos. It's easier to label something and move on than it is to address it and try to fix it.

I said that they have only begun, which means that they will only get worse unless the gunmen understand that it's not ok to kill..

Funny thing about the psychotic mind is that the capacity for knowing right from wrong went bye bye long ago.

The school board member may have had a bad childhood or may have been wronged in life, but that doesn't mean he has the right to kill 45 children.

Never said he had a right to do that, but thanks for making the implication. I was just countering your foolish assessment that violence at schools is a new fad. It isn't, and they have not gotten worse.

One last thing as I close this out. My cousin Rock goes to Virginia Tech. So does a family friend from Michigan. I first heard about this while teaching and had to leave class to call and make sure they were alright. So this does have a personal interest for me, as it does with syan and others here. But that does not cloud my judgement or change the facts. I could relate stories about kids that would send you reeling. And honestly, if one did decide to snap and kill someone, I doubt I could blame them. Yes, people go through harsh times. But don't assume you know what is going on in the minds of these kids, or that you've been through worse. And don't dismiss their rage or their pain. It's very real and very volatile.

RoboFlonne · Post by **RoboFlonne** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:08 pm

roboflonne wrote:What I took exception with was the idea that these kids are suicidal media whores. That's not the case. If it was about fame, then why kill themselves? They would instead be sending out messages and holding hostages. They would want a medium in which to express their feelings and get the attention they crave.

They don't want to spend 50 years in jail. /wah

That's why they kill themselves. They still get their fame and don't spend time in jail. The same reason Suicide bombers kill themselves, afraid of being caught.

p.s. I didn't question your knowledge of the topic blue heaven. I just said 50% of the people in the US now think that the gunmen are the victims and "copycats" like thinking they are victims.

p.s.s. I really wasn't attacking you blueheaven.

blueheaven wrote:I was just countering your foolish assessment that violence at schools is a new fad. It isn't, and they have not gotten worse.

Violence at schools have Dramatically gotten worse since Columbine.

The School Bath Killings 80 years ago didn't get worse because there was no mass media coverage.

My assessment is that school shootings has been getting worse every year after Michael Moore's idea that because you are "different" so it's ok to kill and not your fault.

Ever since the Columbine Media coverage we have school shootings almost every year. /wah

duotrouble · Post by **duotrouble** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:36 pm

Baakay wrote:
klet wrote:What scares me is that the shootings started at 7:15am, then even more people were shot at a different location at around 9:45am, and then 10:15am. What the hell were the police doing during those three hours?!!!!!

THAT's the real issue. As soon as I saw this I started smelling lawsuits. And I'm not meaning that to sound amusing either.

Yeah, the police and campus officials are claiming that they thought it was an isolated event of a boyfriend shooting his girlfriend and the RA who tried to stop him. But why they didn't put a massive search out for him is beyond me. The real question for me is what was the gunman doing in those 2 hours between shootings? What caused him to run to the science building (?) and just "randomly" start shooting others?

My thoughts are with all those effected by this tragedy. I'm truly hoping no beta member was involved. I don't know if we have any college kids from that university here.

Not Sir Phobos · Post by **Not Sir Phobos** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:46 am

duotrouble wrote:
Yeah, the police and campus officials are claiming that they thought it was an isolated event of a boyfriend shooting his girlfriend and the RA who tried to stop him. But why they didn't put a massive search out for him is beyond me. The real question for me is what was the gunman doing in those 2 hours between shootings? What caused him to run to the science building (?) and just "randomly" start shooting others?.

I'm sure in comming weeks we'll hear why and how he was associated with the places of shootings. Why was he automatically described as the first victim's boyfriend, and shot her and only her before moving on? Probably because they had a dating relationship, and she left him for someone in the classroom that he targeted next. That's how I explain the seemingly random events and locations.

kittens · Post by **kittens** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:51 am

I called my friends in VT and seems that everyone is fine

But it is so sad that only one person makes such a nice place really horrible....

Baylor · Post by **Baylor** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:10 am

From what I heard on the radio this morning, the shooter killed his ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend first, at around 7:30 a.m. in her dorm. Two hours later, the next set of shootings occurred in the science building.

They could not do a lock down of the campus as the campus is 1500 acres, and they honestly believed it was an isolated incident. They were investigating what was going on when the shooter went to the science building. They are also investigating the possibility that there are two separate shooters. I'm sure when the official investigation is over, all of what I have heard will be negated.

Either way, this was a HORRIBLE incident, and I can't believe that the gut reaction of people from what I've heard on the radio is to point fingers at campus security and the school itself. Why do we always have to look to blame others? Is that the only way we can move on from something tragic, by pointing fingers at other people?

Kittens -- I'm SO glad that your friends at VTech are okay.

kymaera · Post by **kymaera** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:24 am

Baylor wrote:Why do we always have to look to blame others?

"It's a game that's played by fools
And it only has one rule:
It's not whether you win or lose..
It's how you lay the blame."

I think the main thing is that it's easier to deal with grief if you can distract yourself with anger until the brunt of it has passed. So, people look at who to lash out at. Some will blame the gunman. Others will blame the closest faceless bureaucracy (in this case the school) as it's easier on them to blame a thing than hating another person.