Fan cels of Rilezu cels

[ReiTheJelly]

I think the original point of the post was to answer the question that the English-speaking cel community had been asking Stephen, and since beta is the cel forum that attracts the most attention, posting this announcement here made the most sense.

My sentiments, exactly. It sounds like Stephen is merely asking people to be mindful of the folks who make their living producing relizu and to not use Madoka's images when creating fan cels.

[JWR]

I'm wondering that if this is such a problem that Madoka should consider using a watermarking program to protect those images like many in the cel community do.

Those who are considering purchasing Rilezu's should not be turned off by a watermark as that the scene is portrayed as well as the quality of the work done by Modoka can be seen.

I kind of get the feeling the problem Stephan posted about is not truly with the small group of fan cel artists but an organized group that copied a large group of Rilezu's from Modoka's site and placed them for sale most likely on Yahoo Japan in direct competion and undercutting their sales and profits which we all can agree is wrong.

[Cloud]

Please tell me the correct answer.

[awajikiwi]

This is similar to telling individuals to stop fan subbing series that are already licensed anime. Good luck with that.

First I like to point out when you said "pirated fan cel" I never knew there was a difference between that and a regular "fan cels". After all, isn't the source of the rilezu simply screen caps from the anime series? So doesn't it seem possible that the source of the fancel is also from a screen cap from the anime verses an actual existing rilezu?

I am simply pointing out that if cel companies and such are against the individuals who are "taking sales away" from the creation of rilezu then why don't these same companies go after individuals producing fancels in general? Because you know... the creating a fancel and selling it.. doesn't it mean they are illegal also because they dont own the "rights" of the character and yet there profiting from this. if this is illegal then why are these companies simply going after individuals who have created fancels that happend to be the exact frame they choose to do?

In conclusion... A fancel of a rilezu (which uses a screencap from the series) is no different than a fancel being created by a sole individual. The only difference is the creator. If they truely are trying to correct this issue, I suggest you dont bother. Pirating is here to stay. This is also why companies still do inventory counts yearly regardless if they buy a set number of stock etc. Theft, crime, its here. Companies simply have to deal with this (which many are). But I think I may have gone off on a tangent because the main point is you can't stop it.

WRONG ! Rilezu cels are *licensed* made from the original douga and sometimes contain the original douga.

Licensed means madoka must pay a fee to the copyright holders for each cel made and considering this fee;by the looks of it this seems to more then fan cels are selling for.

Personally what I don't understand is when someone creates a fan cel of someone else's original production cel the cel community cries bloody murder ! Are the copyright holders not allowed protect their cels too ?

[awajikiwi]

I think the original point of the post was to answer the question that the English-speaking cel community had been asking Stephen, and since beta is the cel forum that attracts the most attention, posting this announcement here made the most sense.

My sentiments, exactly. It sounds like Stephen is merely asking people to be mindful of the folks who make their living producing relizu and to not use Madoka's images when creating fan cels.

Exactly! thank you.

And the other rilezu companies too.

[awajikiwi]

Are there certificate's of authenticity with a Rilezu? If so, why is there an issue? Clearly people would not think they are real without one, so how could it hurt sales for the "real McCoy?"

Rilezu cels have a shousha seal (a small square sticker) on them.

[EternityOfPain]

WRONG ! Rilezu cels are *licensed* made from the original douga and sometimes contain the original douga.

Licensed means madoka must pay a fee to the copyright holders for each cel made and considering this fee;by the looks of it this seems to more then fan cels are selling for.

Personally what I don't understand is when someone creates a fan cel of someone else's original production cel the cel community cries bloody murder ! Are the copyright holders not allowed protect their cels too ?

*Licensed* sounds good in a textbook, but reality is quite different. I didn't know that they pay for each cel made granted that is something, but at the same token just because they "pay" for the right to produce them doesn't mean that other individuals should stop making fancels because of such claim. It almost seems that companies are frustrated because (as you mentioned) have to pay a fee per cel (which you also mentioned is sometimes greater than that of the fancel) and because of this very fact its because people are not crying "bloody murderer." Its all about the money. Quality fancels are cheap, and compared Rilezu are far more expensive, this is similar to why some buy bootleg anime dvds verses legit dvds, not saying its right, but there is very little if anything you can do about it. Besides, there are more than enough individuals who collect Rilezu for you guys to make a profit (because Rilezu's are constantly being produced). You mentioned that no one complains about fancels of Rilezu ? Well the fact is, people like to save money, if they can, they will in buying the cheaper alternative. You can either lower the price of Rilezu to make them more attractive (take a hit however increase your quantity sold) or simple acknowledge the fact that Rilezu are for those who really want cels straight from a "company." I think you are beating a dead horse though. But hey if you can come up with a way to stop these "copyright infringers" then I am sure that idea alone will make you more money than these Rilezu ever will.

[awajikiwi]

*Licensed* sounds good in a textbook, but reality is quite different. I didn't know that they pay for each cel made granted that is something, but at the same token just because they "pay" for the right to produce them doesn't mean that other individuals should stop making fancels because of such claim.

If you didn't know this then really don't understand what "copyright "and "purchasing the rights to" means. So sadly there is really no point me trying to reply to you.

It almost seems that companies are frustrated because (as you mentioned) have to pay a fee per cel (which you also mentioned is sometimes greater than that of the fancel) and because of this very fact its because people are not crying "bloody murderer." Its all about the money. Quality fancels are cheap, and compared Rilezu are far more expensive, this is similar to why some buy bootleg anime dvds verses legit dvds, not saying its right, but there is very little if anything you can do about it. Besides, there are more than enough individuals who collect Rilezu for you guys to make a profit (because Rilezu's are constantly being produced). You mentioned that no one complains about fancels of Rilezu ? Well the fact is, people like to save money, if they can, they will in buying the cheaper alternative. You can either lower the price of Rilezu to make them more attractive (take a hit however increase your quantity sold) or simple acknowledge the fact that Rilezu are for those who really want cels straight from a "company." I think you are beating a dead horse though. But hey if you can come up with a way to stop these "copyright infringers" then I am sure that idea alone will make you more money than these Rilezu ever will.

Maybe I didn't make myself understood.

If a person who makes fancels was to go and make a fancel of every cel in a collectors Rubberslug gallery and sell them, that collector would be upset and the cel community would "cry bloody murderer". How is not the same as madoka ? I can't even begin to explain the time and effect that goes into making a rilezu cels (The meetings with the studio(s), searching through the boxes of douga, the painting of cel, the cleanup, the checking and the list goes on and on)

"OH Yes Granted some collectors don't mine if their precious gets fanceled and some people get do."

Yes it would be nice if the rilezu cels were cheaper, Sadly because of royalties (That fee they pay) they cannot be any cheaper.

I am not posting here to complain, I only posted here to address the fact the madoka is now uploading lower quality watermarked images. Am I upset that people are making fan cels of the rilezu cels ? Yes I cause I am. I have many friends who have invested a lot of time and money into the rilezu cels business.

[awajikiwi]

*edit*
Actually, upon further inspection, my fancels were never made into Rilezu. So....I guess I'm not turning myself in?

Only 50% of the cels are posted to madoka and with preorder cels only around 20% to 30% of cels are posted. If you tried to submit the cel to the preorder site and received a "douga cannot be located" then chances are a cels was produced.

"douga cannot be located" and "sold out" are the same in the preorder database.

Stephen

[EternityOfPain]

If you didn't know this then really don't understand what "copyright "and "purchasing the rights to" means. So sadly there is really no point me trying to reply to you.

I know what "copyright" and "purchasing the rights to" mean, if you had read my post you would have realized i was referring to "royalties" that have to be paid. Because I didn't know this it would be ludicrous to state that i didn't know what the definitions of the words you stated meant.

If a person who makes fancels was to go and make a fancel of every cel in a collectors Rubberslug gallery and sell them, that collector would be upset and the cel community would "cry bloody murderer". How is not the same as madoka ? I can't even begin to explain the time and effect that goes into making a rilezu cels (The meetings with the studio(s), searching through the boxes of douga, the painting of cel, the cleanup, the checking and the list goes on and on)

Funny how I constantly read about fellow beta collectors stating that they receive art that is discolored and the work they receive from a fancel creator to be higher notch. If you read the past posts someone even addressed this issue.

"OH Yes Granted some collectors don't mine if their precious gets fanceled and some people get do."

- No idea where you got this quote from, as I didn't say this.

I am not posting here to complain, I only posted here to address the fact the madoka is now uploading lower quality watermarked images. Am I upset that people are making fan cels of the rilezu cels ? Yes I cause I am. I have many friends who have invested a lot of time and money into the rilezu cels business.

Through your posts the resentment is quite apparent. It does sound like your here to complain, and you are because of fancel creators are taking potential earnings from your friends who are creators of rilezu. Regardless, I am stating that if you want to rant, state your position on the issue, go on right ahead, but talking about it, posting, will not stop individuals from creating fancels. Its that simple.

Interesting note: I see you edited your post 3 times. Shame I missed the previous editions.

[Sparta101]

If someone made fan cels of all my cels and stated that they were fan cels and did not try to pass them off as the original, then I see no problem through.

Not sure if this has been said as I have not read all the post, but its does not seem like this is a rule to protect the customers, If someone was trying to pass off fan cels as rilezu cels then I would agree with you 100%, but it's like telling a five year old who drew a picture of Goku for fun "sorry, but you do not have the rights to draw that image" because a fan cel or a fan sketch should be exactly the same. I think this is about making people who really love certain characters have to buy a rilezu, or buy nothing

[Ms. Poe]

Looks like this post has scared a few people into hiding their beauties...-_-~!

Greaaaaat....

Like people have stated already...If there's an organized group that has gotten together and is making "counterfeit" RILEZU...Passing off cels they made as "RILEZU"...Then it would be no different than a person making a repro of a cel in someone's gallery and trying to sell it off as "The real deal".

However, I am formally requesting examples be made public of what or who is a culprit in this "RILEZU" scandal. I *RARELY* see Rilezu in collector's galleries, or even on Y!J. I see a handful up right now. Sometimes they are put up at LUDICROUS prices. Are these what you are referring to?

Please provide links and examples so the community can judge for themselves, if this is such a plague, that the companies are having to consider legal action.

[awajikiwi]

"OH Yes Granted some collectors don't mine if their precious gets fanceled and some people get do."

- No idea where you got this quote from, as I didn't say this.

I am not quoting anyone, I am just stating.. Some people don't mind if their cels are copied and some people do.

Interesting note: I see you edited your post 3 times. Shame I missed the previous editions.

I didn't close the quotes needed to fix them.

[awajikiwi]

Looks like this post has scared a few people into hiding their beauties...-_-~!

Greaaaaat....

Like people have stated already...If there's an organized group that has gotten together and is making "counterfeit" RILEZU...Passing off cels they made as "RILEZU"...Then it would be no different than a person making a repro of a cel in someone's gallery and trying to sell it off as "The real deal".

However, I am formally requesting examples be made public of what or who is a culprit in this "RILEZU" scandal. I *RARELY* see Rilezu in collector's galleries, or even on Y!J. I see a handful up right now. Sometimes they are put up at LUDICROUS prices. Are these what you are referring to?

Please provide links and examples so the community can judge for themselves, if this is such a plague, that the companies are having to consider legal action.

Ms.Poe a few Japanese and overseas collectors have in the past emailed the copyright owners asking about if they could do anything about fans cels. Now we have the legal right to see if we can do anything about this and we are obligated to the customer and copyright holders to at least try and do something to stop this.

[awajikiwi]

Funny how I constantly read about fellow beta collectors stating that they receive art that is discolored and the work they receive from a fancel creator to be higher notch. If you read the past posts someone even addressed this issue.

Sorry, not the ones from Madoka. If Madoka's rilezu cels were of low quality then I doubt all bar one would be sold out on the top page.

*Licensed* sounds good in a textbook, but reality is quite different. I didn't know that they pay for each cel made granted that is something, but at the same token just because they "pay" for the right to produce them doesn't mean that other individuals should stop making fancels because of such claim

Okay if you are so certain here why don't you get some Disney fancels of the Disney sericel done, make a website, put them on ebay and see far your *but reality is quite different* gets you.