I debated on putting this topic in the speakeasy, but thought I'd try it here first. The topic is a middle school girl who got suspended for hugging her friend. My sister tracked down the superintendent of the girl's school (not sure what state myself) and sent him this email:
Dear Superintendent McGowen,
I praise you for your decision today suspending the student for hugging another classmate while on school property. When I was in middle school there was none of this hugging business going on. These children should act like normal American middle schoolers and stick with name calling, and handing out the occasional death threat on loose leaf paper. We all know what hugging leads to. Next thing you know these "huggers" will be sharing their lunches consisting of one part milk and 20 parts marijuana with some Cocaine for an afternoon snack. And with the problems of teens bringing guns to school, I shudder to venture a guess how hugging could increase this. Psychologists say all the time that kids who shoot up schools were "hugged too much" as children, am I wrong? Less hugging should most certainly increase your school's assumingly already high test scores as well. I mean, let's keep these kids as stressed out as possible with no release. Ask any expert and I'm sure they'd tell you this is the way to absorb as much information as possible. Especially if you're a hormonal teenager with pimples and an inferiority complex. Who needs all that "feeling loved by your friends" crap on your mind on top of everything else?
So hats off to you sir. More schools should be run like the orphanage in Oliver.
I died laughing when she told me she did this. But seriously though....suspended for hugging....they've been suspended in other states for playing tag.....what's next?
"Life can only be lived looking forward. It is understood when looking backwards" - Hadji From Real Adventures of Jonny Quest Gold Knight's Cel Gallery - Rubberslug
Unfortunately, I agree with the rule. I say unfortunately because we should NOT have to go this far...but we do. I have seen situations where boys physically molest girls in hallways and vice versa. I have seen guys hug other guys to make them uncomfortable. Last year, I had a girl hug another girl and whisper a threat in her ear that made her cry. While most teachers kind of have a "case by case" policy with hugging, I don't fault this decision. It sends a message to the other kids that no one is immune to the rule, no matter the situation. Those of you who do not teach middle school, have no clue what goes on there. That is not an insult, but a truth. Even if you are the parent of a middle schooler, you STILL have no idea. Parents would be shocked to see how their kids act when they are not at home.
Last year, in a hallway, a young man walked by a slapped a girl on the ass with his palm. Now, they were friends. I knew this. But, I still wrote him up and sent him to the dean. Why? Because even though they are friends, the behavior is still not school appropriate.
Last edited by blueheaven on Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Three Laws of Robotics:
1. A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
-I, Robot (Asimov)
Oh, did I mention that fact that there are 17 year olds roaming the hallways of middle schools? Yup, seventeen. If a child does not pass certain disciplines, he or she is held back up until their 17th birthday. After that, they are no longer the responsibility of the state.
So, say you have a daughter. How would you feel if a seventeen year old boy was allowed to hug your eleven or twelve year old daughter? I refer you to Kymaera's picture above. That lil bastard would be in orbit.
I think there should be a line though. The girl was hugging her friend. I don't believe suspension is necessary for that. That's carrying things a bit far. While I'm well aware of middle school children are capable of having been on the receiving end of that fun growing up I still don't think suspension is necessary. I agree that things should be handled on a case by case basis.
"Life can only be lived looking forward. It is understood when looking backwards" - Hadji From Real Adventures of Jonny Quest Gold Knight's Cel Gallery - Rubberslug
It is really odd to me how much things have changed. When I was in elementary school in the 80's, it was definitely okay for students to hug teachers- I have pictures in my scrapbook from every year of me hugging my teacher goodbye on the last day of school. That would never be allowed these days. Also, in the 80's it was okay for former students to come inside our school building unannounced if they just wanted to say hi and visit with an old teacher. Now you must have an appointment for such things, and there are security people at the entrances of the schools. I do understand why these measures are necessary to keep kids safe, and it's so sad that things have happened to make this necessary in the first place.
The shocker for me with this detention for hugging a friend is that it happened in Illinois, and I'm an Illinois resident. I hope all the schools around here aren't leaning that way.
Wow. I know that things get carried away, but there is also a reason that people feel the need to take things that far. Who is all-knowing enough to say when is enough?
(not trying to bash anyone, just musing in type)
I watched a news show recently that brought up this very subject.
I guess it was "slap ass" day in school somewhere. The game goes, if you get your butt slapped, you have to slap someone else's, like tag. Two boys got caught slapping girls butts. They were sent to PRISON for sexual assault! They were not allowed to contact their parents. Their parents were not allowed to see them. The result was that they were released when all the girls in the school signed a memorandum that they did not feel assaulted by the boys. They interviewed two of the girls and they said that there was no reason for the boys to be in so much trouble it was just a game.
There was also a case where a 5 yr old hugged his teacher. The school made a note of the "sexual assault". After bringing up through the school board it got reduced to "inappropriate behavior".
At what point is the problem too great to just sit someone down and explain to them why what they did was unacceptable? Are these reoccurring problems with the same person? Or are the teachers and other adults in schools taking it too far on the first offense? Why not just talk to the people involved in any given situation to get an idea of both parties response to the event (especially in the case that someone was really bothered)? Then teachers/councilors/etc would have more information to make their decision on.
I just really don't get how things turn out the way that they do.
Just one last thought. Stop blaming the schools. They are not the problem. The PARENTS are the problem. If parents didn't sue every time some clumsy little dumbass tripped while playing tag, then schools would not ban it. If parents didn't cry "molester" every time a teacher hugged a kid, then hugging would not be an issue. If parents would teacher their kids not be gropers, thugs, bullies, and bastards...then maybe we would not limit student contact so much.
I can understand these things being on a case by case basis, however there are pure assholes that work in schools also. No teacher can just cleanly say that it's all the parent's fault. I was the victim of inflated egos more than once in school and here are a few stories to illustrate:
Teacher wrote me up for skipping class: he didn't realize that I had walked up to him and asked permission to go to the office for a bandaid for the cut on my arm from his filing cabinet. Then it was STILL my fault for taking an answer from a teacher who obviously was not paying attention me.
My brother was deducted points in his english class because my mom did not volunteer enough time at the snack shack (the english teacher was also the basketball coach)
My brother was the only freshman to be on the baseball varsity team in the history of his school, he missed some PE classes because he was away at some varsity games. As there is nothing in the handbook about this scenario his PE teacher gave him a "B" because he "missed" class.
My wife (girlfriend at the time) was having a lot of difficulty with her periods, immense cramping and nausia. I had my arm around her and hers around me to help her walk down a short steep hill. We got in trouble for that. The school official demanded that we walk back up the hill to her and berated us for the innapropriate behavior. Well my wife started crying at that point and I explained why we were doing what we were doing. She still said it was innapropriate and that I should have found someone else to assist her.
My brother was doing horribly in a couple subjects, so my parents hired a friend who is a retired licensed teacher to tutor him (and his friend) on those two subjects. His performance and grades improved drastically. So his teacher made him stand up in front of the class and apologize for his cheating.
Oh yeah and there are many more.
Every one of those examples was a different teacher, and every one was because they were not using actual logic or because they didn't care. While I agree that a lot of parents need to wake up out there I also think that a lot of teachers, office staff and administrators need to get off their tenure horse and be slapped by the "wake the hell up" stick.
The following is a general hodgepodge of information.
I grew up in Illinois as well. I still live here actually -not in the same town though. In any case, I remember times when my friends and I would walk down the hall (6th/7th grade) and try to sandwich-in which ever friend was in between us. Never got into trouble for that. Lets just make everything cold and sterile to make it easier for everyone. Drain out all the joy in everything and make all forms of contact illegal. *sarcasm*
Yeah, I saw the people in the hallways practically making out. They were never stopped it seemed. A light kiss on the cheek to your boyfriend (lunch time) though and watch out, a teacher might swoop down from out of no where like an avenging angel -though the most they ever did was embarress you. Trust me, it only took that happening once to make me want to make sure it never happened again. Incidently, the formerly mentioned teacher would probably laugh if he knew I compared him to an avenging angel. He had a rather funny sense of humor.
I don't doubt for a minute that there are probably rotten kids out there who try to use these kinds of 'innocent' hugging to veil threats to others. Its horrible that most teachers seem to be unable to know their students as well as they did in past years due to over crowding raising classroom capacities as well. I've only ever had one teacher that disliked me or acted like she had a thing against me. That was sr. year. Apparently, the fact that I wore my hair down annoyed her. She complained about it to my father once. No, it wasn't dyed. I didn't have multiple piercings, a tongue ring or a tattoo. I didn't even have it cut oddly. Just normal curly hair that was down to mid-back.
I agree, more parents should try to raise their children better. However, teachers aren't totally innocent here either -you're advocating extreme policing because of a few kids, yet condeming that same action being taken upon teachers for a few teachers that overstepped their bounds. Its the same situation -only reversed.
I remember being able to hug a teacher if we wanted to. I remember being invited by my former 8th grade reading teacher to go back and visit them sometime because they missed me. I used to go back to my old grade school and visit my teachers with a friend or two after we started Jr. High -to visit them.
I was pretty much what you'd consider a good kid. Involved with stuff like Key Club (and the Jr. high version), Band and Orchestra (jr. high only), teachers knew and remembered my name. Heck, even nominated twice (with several others from Freshman-Senior year) for the 'human relations award' thing our highschool used to have. I don't remember how large the group of recipiants was each time. I don't even know if they still have it.
My school was far from what you would call little. My graduating class had over 700 students in it. My old band director still remembered me last I saw him a few years ago (before we moved up here). In case it makes a difference, I graduated in 1996 from St. Charles High School.
The thing is teachers make all the difference. When you have good caring teachers that are honestly concerned/care about their students, or at least have a decent rapport with them, you're able to not have to go to these extremes in order to get results.
I do know that there was a dress code of sorts though in the Highschool. Once to make a point, a guy in my grade level (sr. year) wore a rather concervative black dress to school. On any girl, it would have been considered rather prim and proper. They made him go home and change it though.
The only case I can remember about inproper conduct between a student and a teacher involved an alleged incident with a teacher in the district (I was a sophmore in highschool at the time). It was rumored that there was more than one instance, and most likely having occured in the past more than once as well. As far as I know, he was found innocent. I would expect that his record would have been cleared by now.
I know some of the other cities in the area had more stringent rules. One instituted a rule about not being allowed to wear a certain type of flannel jacket. This was due to the fact that the lining could be cut and that weapons could be concealed. At the time, my HS did not have this rule in effect. Another odd one was not being able to wear trenchcoats at a HS in a nearby town. I think that was after the Columbine shootings. The only reason I knew of it was because I had a few friends who were still in HS at the time.
It does seem though that between the time that I graduated and the time that my brother graduated things changed drastically. Same school system, same schools, even a few common teachers in places... just 6 years apart. During that time, at least in the HS level, I know they changed things like the whole weighted grades and class levels - L2(average), L3(above average), LH(honors), AP (advanced placemtent- college? credit maybe). I know my younger brother had a rougher go of it since I don't think he was able to find himself a niche quite that easily. He was in cross country for a while, but (rather foolishly) gave it up. Maybe it was due to the fact that there was massive overcrowding by then, maybe it was because he wasn't as outgoing, or maybe he just got bad luck when it came to teachers. The L3 teachers were , on the whole, mostly very nice and seemed to enjoy teaching (except in my case with the aforementioned teacher Sr. year -who, incidently, was well known for being a tough teacher unless you were involved with yearbook.) ... I just don't know anymore.
I'm glad that my children are growing up in a smaller school district. By comparison, my daughter's gradutating class will only be 200 or so. There might not be as many programs here as there were in my home town, but the teachers here don't have to spread themselves so thin and can communicate more with the children. Its odd how much this town mirrored certain aspects of my home town back in the 1980's when I was in gradeschool.
Perhaps all the extreme policing is due to the fact that most schools are so overcrowded now adays that teachers do not have the ability to be able to get to know all the students better and as such, blanket policies are put into effect to keep everything under check. Still though, it is rather sad to see that this is the effect of a combination of parenting, sue-happy people, over crowding, and other things I am not aware of.
In anycase, I apologize in advance if I insulted/hurt/bothered anyone. It was not my intention. Reading the initial post just reminded me of how school was when I was growing up, and I am prone to fits of nostalgia. Yes, in case it was not noticible, I actually enjoyed a good chunk of my HS years -then again, I've always been a little odd. I wasn't popular, I wasn't un popular. I'm not really sure what I was.... I definately can say I knew a lot of people, and was on good terms with most...
We really didn't have any kind of "Preps hating Jocks" or "Jocks hating band people" at my school... In our case, some of the jocks were in band, and some of the preps were most likely jocks. I hear the case has changed since then. That was partially due to said hometown getting another HS to alleviate overcrowding....
Now, if you will all kindly excuse me, I have to get back to working on this background... its a real dosey. ^_^
Thank you, to the original poster, for starting this discussion.
Wow. NSP, you completely missed the point of my last post. I blame parents because THEY are the one's who always sue when something totally innocuous happens to their kids. A busted lip from dodgeball? Sue the bastards! Kid got "sandwiched" by two other kids without consent? Lawsuit time! Are schools simply supposee to ignore the threat of a lawsuit? No. So we pass these rules to keep the threat to a minimum and the children suffer for their parents mistakes.
I know there are shitty teachers out there. Never said otherwise. However, there are FAR more shitty parents. Think about it. We get them for 53 minutes every day. The parents get them for 18 hours, and weekends/breaks. Who has the greater influence?
Sorry about those instances NSP. Sucked to be you. Let it go already, you're 27! And the teachers are also not here to tell their side. We do make mistakes now and again you know. However, that has exactly jack squat to do with the discussion at hand. Same for Pixie. I could sit here and talk about all the times that I got screwed over in school growing up. I could wax poetic about the "good ol' days." But you guys know NOTHING about this current generation of kids. Absolutely nothing. This is what we dealt with just last week...
Two kids found with drugs(meth)
One child found with alcohol(vodka)
Two kids brought knives(six and ten inch blades)
One had possession of a gun on campus(not our student)
13 fights
26 sexually inappropriate acts(NOT hugging)
I am only thirty, and these kids are an entirely new generation from mine. So, unless you have some real world experience on dealing with kids today(break up a rainbow party or catch one student trying to give another a handjob in class), in a school setting, your stories simply remain cute references to a bygone era.
My sister tracked down the superintendent of the girl's school (not sure what state myself) and sent him this email:
But seriously though....suspended for hugging....they've been suspended in other states for playing tag.....what's next? 
