Japan Asks America to Stop Illegal Net Releases of Anime

[cutiebunny]

I, too, agree that the anime companies need to improve the quality of the product first.

I have not purchased many anime DVDs . I have a few, and most of the ones I have had great picture quality. But the Geneon/Pioneer release of the Sailormoon series was not one of these. The picture quality was incredibly poor, so much so that I ended up buying remastered 'bootlegs'(apparently made from the official Toei DVDs) specifically for the purpose of making screenshots. The bootleg quality is excellent; You can pause and easily find the exact shot that your cel is from.

There's only so much each person can do to support the 'industry'. Some people buy legit DVDs, CDs and other products, others purchase artwork, etc. Utlimately, the industry needs to evaluate itself to determine what, if any, changes it will need to take in order to ensure its longevity.

However, quashing fansubs is not the way to go. Not only will it cost each company millions of dollars to do, but, people will always find a way to get around it. And, as many of the US releases take several months if not years to make it to the States, it's only going to hurt the companies that produce it and those that market products related to the anime. Who's going to buy your overstock of candy related to an anime if no one outside of Japan has heard of it?

[sugarcels]

I really think, if it's so upsetting for them, they should make the anime accessible to overseas fans.

-They can subtitle the anime and put it up on the net, say, a week after the episode airs.
-They can release the anime THEMSELVES, and cut out the middle man, possibly making the cost cheaper because they didn't pay to license it.
-SUBTITLE THE R2s. They have no idea how many I would gladly buy if they would only include subtitles. I can't exactly justify $60 for 2 episodes if I can't understand 99% of the dialoge, regardless of how much I love it.

You aren't making it easy for us, guys.

I do my part to support, I have a lot of DVDs, believe me.

[Cloud]

Perhaps I could switch to a cell phone.

[Ronin]

There's only so much each person can do to support the 'industry'. Some people buy legit DVDs, CDs and other products, others purchase artwork, etc.

By artwork, I hope you're not referring to cels.

At the end of the day, there is no justifying buying bootlegs or downloading episodes through torrents or whatever. I've tried to stay out of this thread, because it annoys me how people try and justify that buying bootlegs or downloading is okay, it's stealing and dishonest AND it does hurt the industry that you supposedly love.

[darksuzaku]

At the end of the day, there is no justifying buying bootlegs or downloading episodes through torrents or whatever. I've tried to stay out of this thread, because it annoys me how people try and justify that buying bootlegs or downloading is okay, it's stealing and dishonest AND it does hurt the industry that you supposedly love.

While i agree with you that purchasing bootlegs is stealing and dishonest i completely disagree about downloaded torrents, or anything where no money is required to pay.

In many Europe countries we call this "private copy" and we already have to pay special taxes when we purchase CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, HDDs, MP3 players or any kind of storage media just to be able to get these things. This tax "compensates" the industry for their loss.

So, in many Europe countries we can legally trade multimedia contents as long as we don't get any monetary compensation for it.

In the particular case of torrents, a torrent site in any of those countries is completely legal as long as it doesn't have ADS or any other similar things. Of course, when i say torrents i mean "legal content". For example, an screener movie is not legal, but a DVD rip or a TV recorded material is completely legal. As for people who downloads material, as long as the material is "legal" it doesn't matter if you downloaded it from a torrent site with or without ADS.

So those news about people getting sued in the US for downloading mp3s are not likely to happen over here. Many things would have to change for that to happen.

With that said, i can add that i purchase all the R1 DVDs of the series that i like. I own more than 70 entire series in this format, and all of that thanks to the episodes that i donwloaded. If i had not donwloaded any of those previously you can bet that i would have purchased very few of them. So in my case, internet has helped the industry. I can't help it, if i'm going to purchase anything i want to make sure it's good. Reviews and the like are not enough for me.

Btw, happy new year minna-san ^^

[miz ducky]

-They can release the anime THEMSELVES, and cut out the middle man, possibly making the cost cheaper because they didn't pay to license it..

Why would they drop the price just to sell to Americans? If anything I would see them making it even more expensive to release a second version for American audiences.

-SUBTITLE THE R2s. They have no idea how many I would gladly buy if they would only include subtitles. I can't exactly justify $60 for 2 episodes if I can't understand 99% of the dialoge, regardless of how much I love it.

If they did put english subtitles on their dvds so that we would buy the R2 release it would still cost way more than what we're used to paying here. I don't have a problem with this idea, but I know that it certainly wouldn't help the issue of needing to increase dvds sales. A lot fewer people would be willing to pay the cost which is why dvd sales are squarely aimed at superfan "otaku"s in Japan, they just cost too much for the average consumer to justify the purchase. So I think that only a few obscure titles would actually make the leap to America in R2 format even if they did put English subtitles on their dvds (unless of course the entire American industry collapses then the really popular shows would cross too, but right now we have domestic companies who bring those to us for a lot less than we would get them in Japan).

DVD sales in America will always trail the shows in Japan by a period that makes the Japanese companies comfortable (could be rectified by legal internet releases). Japanese companies would lose business if the American dvds came out at the same time (or earlier) as the Japanese ones. Why would a Japanese person buy the Japanese release if they can get the American one cheaper? The American dvds all have the original dialogue. Let's also acknowledge that touch ups are made to the dvd releases that weren't fixed in time for broadcast, so that takes time too. So it's not like torrents are the end all, be all of a show.

EDIT: Should have used spell check the first time.

[Cloud]

Other people say they like vacuum cleaning robots, humanoid robots and chat robots.

[Moop]

At the end of the day, there is no justifying buying bootlegs or downloading episodes through torrents or whatever. I've tried to stay out of this thread, because it annoys me how people try and justify that buying bootlegs or downloading is okay, it's stealing and dishonest AND it does hurt the industry that you supposedly love.

I sit astride the fence in this particular argument as far as downloads are concerned, because I firmly believe that a lot of R1 DVD sales are made only after people have fallen in love with a series on torrent. Japanese audiences buy an anime because they have already watched it on television or in a theater, and know that it is something worth seeing again and again. Considering the high cost of DVDs, is it so strange for American consumers to take the same approach?

However, on the subject of justification...isn't it funny how the studios happily accept the money from overseas sales by the rilezu industry? The preorders all seem to be for shows that have not been released yet in R1 format.

[wndrkn]

Hi all:

Anime sales are way down hence the crackdown on what the industry thinks is the reason -- downloads.

Here's an article from icv2.com, an excellent site for retailers:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/11796.html

and the letter the article is referring to here:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/indepth/11795.html

Personally, in some ways, I think it's a market correction. Companies have been putting out everything they can get their hands on and that means not always the best quality (nor, as many people have pointed out, the best quality production).

Wendy

[funshine]

interesting articles.

i don't think it's a 1:1 for any reason on why the decline in sales. I'm sure downloading has something to do with it, but what percentage I'm not sure - there are downloaders who download and then buy all/most of what they watch eventually, there are downloaders who download so they never have to buy (of this group some are probably 'fans' who would never purchase anime to begin with or would only purchase a show or two so the impact of them may not be big and then there are those who may purchase more but don't because they can get it for free, etc).

But as others have mentioned, it's not just downloading, it's also that there are a lot more titles out now than before, that people know boxsets are released so some who may have purchased as it was released wait for the boxset because why pay 200+ when you can pay 80ish shortly after the last dvd is released. It's also that there are people out who don't have the disposable income they once had due to market conditions, etc.

but, i do like that they are trying to push for faster releases. and i definately think a legal (reasonably priced) alternative would help alleviate some of the problem (not all as I'm sure there will still be people who download).

i'd still rather a monthly/yearly service with unlimited or variations ie 0-20 episodes = $x, etc that possibly has two levels (one where you can keep the episode and one where you just view it for up to like a week). But if it was pay by episode it would have to be 1: very cheap per episode, 2: great quality, and 3: amounts paid could be credited towards the purchase of the legal releases (be that singles or boxsets - i'd be open to a slight discount of the credit if the legal release purchased is a cheaper boxset) and 4: if 3 occurs it would be nice if you could put amounts paid for one show to another from the same company/creator (i.e. if you pay to watch episodes 1-24 and the ending absolutely ruins the series for you, it would be nice if that wasn't just lost money and could be applied towards a diff series/same creator) - though this may be a stretch and i doubt that would happen.

in any case, i hope whatever is decided on makes sense and works.

[klet]

Hmmm . . . interesting article, Wendy.

I think the oddest point is the following:

Smith argues that "the Japanese anime DVD market is doing even worse than in the US and Europe isn't doing great either."

He then goes on to say that fansubs are the main cause of the lower DVD sales in the US. But, considering how DVD sales have gone down even more drastically in Japan, where fansubs are nonexistant, wouldn't you think that there is a deeper cause behind the fall?

I do watch fansubs. I also buy DVDs. I don't buy as many shows as I download, I'll admit, but that's because I don't like the shows to watch them more than once. I've bought shows due to a friend's reccomendation or due to the fact that they're labeled a "classic" before, and I watched them once, and then resold them. I don't know how that helps the anime industry out at all--I had bought them on sale and ended up getting justing under or just over what I paid to begin with.

As far as the original letter from Arthur Smith, I laugh at his assertaion that "normal" anime typically has 10+ fansub groups. Most shows that I watch typically have 1-3, and groups will usually drop anime if they have too much going and another group is working on it. Maybe Naruto has more than 10. I don't think Bleach does (but, I haven't watched Bleach in a few months, so I could be wrong). There might be more than 10 people loading a single series up on YouTube, but that doesn't mean that they didn't get it from a single source rather than 10 different groups.

[RX78GP02AGUNDAM]

He then goes on to say that fansubs are the main cause of the lower DVD sales in the US. But, considering how DVD sales have gone down even more drastically in Japan, where fansubs are nonexistant, wouldn't you think that there is a deeper cause behind the fall?

Anime isnt the only sales going down in JP. Manga has been posted on the net before the street date...which has been causing problems. Sure, the Japanese do not need subtitles, but, having to not pay $50 for a 2 episode DVD will get people to start downloading. Which lead to arrests in Japan, since its illegal.

[Sparta101]

Not sure I am understanding everyone too well japan sells anime show to the USA also known as licensing them?, then these American companies make DVD's and sell them so the only people losing out by people making fansubs are american or non Japanese companies?.

When I was at uni I wrote my dissertation on anime and manga and I did a lot of research reading many books about the subject one common factor in all the books was that anime and manga was only dependent on the Japanese market and they had very little interest outside of japan it was not a case of not being able to enter into the western market more like an unwillingness to or it was unnecessary. (which was a point I made about it being relatively unknown in the UK)

So if downloading is hurting anime thats because people in Japan are not buying as many DVD's and are downloading them or buying bootleg dvds. sorry, but unless all the books I have read are wrong then I cannot agree with what is being said, I can possibly understand that fewer shows are getting licensed because of all the downloading which could have an effect on anime outside japan.

Here in the UK anime is very hard to find in shops you can go to HMV and they will have a small anime section, but for 1 dvd it costs about £20 ($40) and thats for about 3-4 eps now if I wanted to buy all the bleach episodes just imagine the cost, if it was not for torrents I would have seen very little anime.

[Cordelia]

If Japanese can digitally record anime episodes off the tv, then it's not surprising if DVD sales of any kind drop.

Manga sales have been falling steadily over the years, like 20% compared to a more than a decade ago. Part of the reason could be due to a vibrant 2nd hand market in Japan. You can get pristine manga for a fraction of the price shortly after it was first released. In Japan where space is limited, it makes sense to sell stuff you don't really like.

For anime downloads, the foreign distributors will be hurt first. If it's a global impact, then the Japanese studios would feel the pinch too even if foreign markets are secondary.

Good to know that Gonzo is pushing for faster release and internet streaming. But the second option will cut away middlemen like the distributors and cause a bigger fall in DVD sales, so I wonder what will happen. Ultimately, the point is the business model must change, like the music and movie industries.