Have you ever been scammed on a cel?

ReiTheJelly · Post by **ReiTheJelly** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:18 am

One of her eyes is a different size, too.

I would definitely contact your deputy and get your money back, if possible. Even if the seller did not know what they were peddling, it is their job to set it right. The worst they can say is that too much time has passed for a refund.

klet · Post by **klet** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:10 am

You mentioned that there was line fading in the cel, but looking at your scan, I really don't see any. Was there line fading in the auction picture? Also, does the camera pan down any farther in the episode? Because this cel looks like it was done by someone who had the original in hand, or someone with the artistic skill to continue her body on past what is shown on screen.

Considering the continuation of her body, and the use of multiple layers, it seems that this cel was specifically made to pull the wool over someone's eyes.

Most fancels out there are clearly marked as such . . . and only done on one layer. Studios use multiple layers to save on costs.

But yeah, I'm suspicious of any cel that does not have at least some line fading, unless it's a fairly recent (cel-wise) show, such as Daa! Daa! Daa! or Hunter x Hunter (late 90s-early 00s) or has a very specific color scheme that is not prone to fading (no browns, brighter reds, or yellows).

Oh, and yes, I have been scammed on a cel before. When I first started collecting, I bought a cel of Li Shaoran in his cute school cap for about $25, along with some Eva posters for my little sister's birthday. I never received either item.

Krafty · Post by **Krafty** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:28 pm

Sorry Blaster, but the diagnosis doesn't look good. The first difference I saw was her left eye. It's squinting in your cel which gives her a slutty or devious appearance. An 'A1 END' cel like that wouldn't have been redone as there's ery little to get wrong. The genga would have been trusted enough to work from.

[EDIT] By leaving this thread open on my computer for a few hours and neglecting to post my reply promptly, I've been 'overtaken' by other posters. Sorry. I'll shut up.

Post by **sensei** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:52 pm

To the case in point, I have nothing to add. Yes, it looks like a rather inexpert fancel.

But to the question that you asked in the title: I nearly got scammed once, and escaped only thanks to the integrity of the seller. The cel was a wonderful pan image of Yukito from CCS in his Wonderland "white rabbit" form, which was being sold by Cherry Snow during her final gallery dispersal. But there was some question about the sequence numbers, and Cherry Snow opened the envelope in which she's bought it to check. She found that in fact the cel did not have sequence numbers, and that the upper right corner had in fact been clipped off, with a replacement number written on the outside of the cel bag.

Then I did a verrry careful check on my DVD and found that there were several small differences like the ones pointed out in blaster's cel. It looked as if the cel had been painted from a collage of screen caps rather than being an actual cel photographed during the pan. And, when I checked my TV Animation Art Book -- aha! -- there was a paste-up of several screen caps showing the exact image in the cel in question.

It seems clear that whoever executed the cel used the Art Book as a source for the design. It might well have been a fan cel in origin; then someone got the idea of bagging it up, adding a sequence number, and selling it as genuine.

As someone noted, the result was genuine enough to fool Cherry Snow, who was no dope as anyone who dealt with her when she was active can attest. And, it's worth restating, if she hadn't been forthcoming about her own misgivings, I might well have bought the cel in haste and regretted it later.

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:52 pm

And. What happened?

Post by **sensei** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:53 pm

And so I bought her cel of Yukito and Kero-chan from the end of the Second Movie instead:

http://sensei.rubberslug.com/gallery/in ... mID=147573

(It's nice to have an appreciative audience!)

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:29 pm

Thanks for you input guys.

I was thinking about it late lat night, and I have decided to contact my deputy to get in touch with the seller.

klet - sorry, what I meant by 'line fading' is that there are pieces of the lines missing or damaged - like you would expect to see in a genuine cel (Not large chunck, but small pieces throughout the piece)

No, the screen only goes as far as the screencap - which is also made me think it was original (a a lot of cels usually continue beyond what is filmed.)

Just for interests sake, this is the picture from the auction http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b251/ ... 958img.jpg

Thanks again for everyone's input - I'll let you guys know what happens

graymouser · Post by **graymouser** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:32 pm

I'm a little late so I will just repeat what everyone else has said. I hope everything turns out OK.

Cordelia · Post by **Cordelia** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:41 pm

I'm afraid the differences are rather glaring, esp some of the edges. I hope it was not too expensive...

And this is certainly not your fault. You won't be able to tell from the pic in the auction and it is the seller's responsibility to ensure that his description is correct. Selling for a fren doesn't make him less accountable. He has more to worry about getting into trouble with Yahoo Japan than you ruffling his feathers.

I hope your deputy will help you get your money back.

Hope all this works out fine for you, good luck!

Moop · Post by **Moop** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:05 pm

Blaster wrote:Just for interests sake, this is the picture from the auction http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b251/ ... 958img.jpg

For future reference, when the paint goes evenly all of the way to the edge, it's a HUGE red flag that you are almost certainly looking at a fan cel. I don't know who the seller was, so I don't want to make broad accusations...but if he is experienced with production art, he should know that.

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:15 pm

Moop wrote:
Blaster wrote:Just for interests sake, this is the picture from the auction http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b251/ ... 958img.jpg
For future reference, when the paint goes evenly all of the way to the edge, it's a HUGE red flag that you are almost certainly looking at a fan cel. I don't know who the seller was, so I don't want to make broad accusations...but if he is experienced with production art, he should know that.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure I know what you mean. Are you talking about the amount of paint used, meaning some areas will look darker then others? Shouldn't it look fairly even from the front though?

Moop · Post by **Moop** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:25 pm

Nope, that's not what I mean.

See how the paint goes clear to the edge at the bottom of the cel, forming an even, straight line across? It's extremely rare to see that in a production cel. Usually there will be a gap between the paint and the edge of the acetate. I'll find an example and PM it to you.

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:49 pm

Ahh, I see now - thanks for the help Moop

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:09 am

Just an update on my situation:

I received word back from my deputy today, and unfortunately they can't help me. Apparently the seller had a "no claim, no return" clause in his description (which I forgot about) and a note claiming he wasn't sure if it was an original (which I must've mis-translated)

So I am now stuck with a $390 reminder of a bad decision.

I guess that saying is true: "If it looks to good to be true, it probably is" :/

kenshikenji · Post by **kenshikenji** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:13 pm

I was wondering, has anyone every just used the sketch to reproduce a fake and sell the fake and the sketch together and keep the genuine cel?