Creating a Permanent Beta Awards site

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:17 pm

As this year's system was quite popular with most participants, I have been tossing around the idea of creating a permanent Beta Awards site featuring this design. In short, I'd like to have a site that can be used for every future competition using this design so that all future organizers will have to worry about are setting rules, criteria, and whatever else needs to be done.

I plan on absorbing the cost, so, financially speaking, there wouldn't be a downside for this forum or any of its users. The only adverse problem I see is that, as it would be registered to me, I would always have access to whatever artwork is uploading to it for contest purposes. I realize that being a "permanent organizer" might be distateful for some, so, hence, before the investment is made, I figured it would be best to ask here.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

EternityOfPain · Post by **EternityOfPain** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:03 pm

While the idea is great, the main problem is that throughout the years individuals feelings change and thus have different priorities. Just looking at the past few beta awards you can see that each year the individuals running it change and it continues to get better. But most importantly the site changes etc. With new people, it doesn't seem like the same thing over and over. This years was great, without a doubt, but who knows if this time next year someone can't top it? I just don't think we should confine ourselves to a set agenda. Especially, since its a year away heh. Maybe resume this talk when there is only a few months till the next one? Then at least any and all possible indivdials interested in being apart of running it could.

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:03 pm

And. I will bookmark the URL and have a look.

miz ducky · Post by **miz ducky** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:45 pm

I think that there shouldn't be any issue with that because that way you don't have to worry about who will host it each time.
The code and look of the site can change every year a long with who actually runs it.

Just because it has it's own web space doesn't mean that it has to be the same every year.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:39 pm

Right. I would have no problem with any future organizers changing the 'look', modifying categories, adding graphics, etc. Basically, what I'm going for is a permanent web address. Future organizers could use the rough layout of previous awards or they could modify it to their own specifications.

Also, by having an entry system that stays roughly the same, it eases entries for future competitions. This year, we received several e-mail regarding how to enter due to variations in previous contests. If all entrants knew that the same system of submitting online was in place for all future awards, it might aleviate some confusion.

lcatino · Post by **lcatino** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:11 pm

I think having a permanent awards site is a great idea. This years format was really user friendly, and while it was my first awards, the site seemed to be popular with the vets as well.

Keeping the site as is would hopefully help future organizers, but I also think having it set up to allow for future category changes and what not is a good idea too.

It's nice of you to offer to absorb the cost CB. Just curious - how much does it actually cost to run a website?

klet · Post by **klet** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:31 pm

The only problem I really have with any "permanent" Beta Awards site is that it will never be permanant. I mean, not that I think you'll quit collecting anytime soon or drop off the face of the planet, cutiebunny, but you never know.

We did a beta RS gallery a few years back. Haven't heard from the original organizer in a while, nor his replacements. Last year, the Beta awards organizers purchased the domain betaawards.com (which, actually, now that I look at it, has this year's awards on it

). I was against that at the time, because it assumed that they would be organizing this year's awards. And . . . neither one of them have really been very vocal in the past six months or so, and at least one of them is out of the loop as far as the cel community goes (words from the horse's mouth).

So, I guess I'm saying that history has taught us that it's not a good idea to leave the reins in one person's hand. I mean, the organizers who wanted to use the website would have to go through you year after year, and with no 100% guarentee that they could contact you, it's going to be a shot in the dark about whether they can even use the site. Btw, betaawards.com is already taken!

I know a lot of people see the rules for the awards and immeadiately go into tl;dr mode, but those people need to start reading. Heck, you could answer all questions with cut and paste from the rules, or even just a link to the rules.

Finally, if you do decide to make a "permanent" site, please, please, please make sure that zerospace gets her due credit! I mean, the coding wouldn't be too difficult after this year, but I know she put a lot of effort into it for this first run.

Ms. Poe · Post by **Ms. Poe** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:13 pm

klet wrote: We did a beta RS gallery a few years back. Haven't heard from the original organizer in a while, nor his replacements.

I believe I posted that the Beta Gallery was taken over by me and D123...

We have been discussing the revamp, and D123 has even come up with some cool designs...

We have a lot in store for it, but since we've both been ill, we've postponed it til now as far as letting Beta know what the revamp will be. My health willing...After I get back to everyone on my offers...I'll be posting a delicious thread on the revamp :}

klet · Post by **klet** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:56 am

Ms. Poe wrote:
klet wrote: We did a beta RS gallery a few years back. Haven't heard from the original organizer in a while, nor his replacements.
I believe I posted that the Beta Gallery was taken over by me and D123...

Oh, I didn't realize it had passed hands again.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you guys--I meant the two who had charge before you.

But I do think that it still illustrates my point about the sometimes transient nature of cel collectors.

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:40 pm

Why don't you guys just buy a domain for the beta-awards? Like anime-beta-awards.com? You can do it via donations and buy the domain for maybe 5 or 10 years. It will have to be registered to somebody of course but after that you could just "park" the name (i think godaddy has parking) in the meantime and just point the dns to whoever will be hosting the awards that year or if the people organizing an award wanted to use a free site, they can just use a URL forwarding service. For cheaper hosting one can run it from your own PC too and use a free dns site to point... Ownership of the domain name I don't think will be an issue, everyone would know anyway that it was a collective anyway. Besides even if the registered owner of the domain name would decide to quit the community, then they can easily initiate a domain transfer to someone who is still active in the cel community.

As for the code, it really depends on what type of hosting the future organizers has access to (PHP? SQL? ASP? etc) and how savvy they are to change codes/templates/what nots. I say keep the code free to use for future organizers (provided zerospace is willing) if they want to or has the capability to use it, but also if they aren't comfortable then allow them to use something they are more familiar with. Yeah I know I never joined the beta awards because I thought the submission process before was too complicated (I have trouble following simple instructions

), however I'd rather have an organizer and deal with a little more complication than not have an organizer (and thus no awards). See the problem is not all willing and would be organizers are technically inclined.

If we want permanence then I think a domain name should come first before where or how to host. My thinking is thus...

During Awards season - someone could let us borrow temporary hosting (that has the database, php etc function to use zerospace code etc) or dns point to a hosting preferred by the organizer.

During non-awards season year round - you can have it "parked" for free with winners showing... or use a url forwarding service to a free site to showcase past winners etc. Simple webpages don't need all that PHP, SQL stuff anyway.

Ah well just my two cents.

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:16 am

I've volunteered to work my code to allow it to be adaptable for future use. In fact, my code uses NO databases at all! All it requires is the ability to execute PHP (most servers will have this) at PHP version 4.3 and later. The only thing that free hosts probably would not allow would be the file upload part of the code ... but yeah. The entire awards site this year was done using nothing but files to store data.

The cost to host a website can be free, cheap or expensive and it all depends on what features are included. Somewhere around $5-$10 per month is about normal for relatively decent hosting (the closer to $10 you get, generally the more stuff you get).

I actually like the idea of someone offering up their hosting to be used each year. In fact, the site is so simple to set up that all they'd have to do is copy the files and make the changes they want (add a category list, etc). If I were to update this year's site code for future use, it would be as simple as filling out some forms to update text and categories, etc. Of course, that's IF folks want to use my code in the future at all! (I wouldn't be at all offended if they don't ... I'm certainly not the end-all-be-all of web programmers, but I have been doing it for quite awhile and have more skill at it than the average bear).

I have no intention of locking this year's site code away in a vault never to be allowed for use again. I've actually sent a copy of it to Zetsuai, since she wanted to see how I did it. The only thing I would ask of anyone is this: if my code (or any part of it) were to be used, please... please please just leave me a credit for it somewhere. I really detest people who steal intellectual property for their own use and never credit the original creator. It's just rude, and it's been done to me before. *sigh*

I'll try to keep up with this thread, but if it's decided that future years want to use my code for a basis, please tell me. I'll need to do some work on it to allow for this

.

beatrush · Post by **beatrush** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:03 am

Well I'll throw my hat into the ring on this. I wouldnt mind taking this over.

I will offer to host the site, register the domain and set the account up. Zerospace just needs to provide me with what the site needs to run and I can set it up.

graymouser · Post by **graymouser** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:00 pm

I don't participate in the beta awards, but I think this is a neat idea.

I don't know if it will help or not but I have A LOT of unused space in my domain. I use 162 MB of 5000 MB available. I can create a subdomain for use that would not cost beta anything. If I ever decide to close my gallery or leave, I can just pass the domain/subdomain onto someone else.

I am not good with code so unless its simple uploading, it would be better if I gave an organizer access to the site.

kizu · Post by **kizu** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:33 pm

Zerospace - Wow so I am guessing you are using XML to preserve the tables. LOL. Completely forgot that it can be done that way.

well if that's what's being used, LOL, I'm just guessing after all.

All- Anyway, I think it would be better not to have a sub-domain and instead have a real domain name for the beta awards for SEO reasons, promotion reasons, flexibility in where and how to host. That's not as easily done with a sub-domain. Just thought I'd let you guys know about the cons of having a sub-domain instead. There are lots of cheaper registrants just be careful that it's actually registered to you and not them. I'd personally pay a little more for easier domain management. Typically you can get a bulk discount from 1-10 years.

Good luck everyone whatever you decide.

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:05 pm

kizu wrote:Zerospace - Wow so I am guessing you are using XML to preserve the tables. LOL. Completely forgot that it can be done that way. well if that's what's being used, LOL, I'm just guessing after all.

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Kizu:

Actually, it isn't even quite that complicated

. Rather than store data in tables, I've stored it in files which can be read and parsed by PHP into arrays of information to be displayed or otherwise manipulated on the pages. I actually consider some of the code to be a bit sloppy for me, which is partly why it needs a bit of work to be adapted for future years. I've also used some basic encoding for some things, which probably ought to be upgraded to better encryption if it is to become more permanent. Really and truly this site was an experiment for me -- there is much room for improvement, which I'm willing to work on given enough time.

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