major problem with midori!!

[zerospace]

I agree with those who have said that neither side is going to walk away feeling good about this.

Neither side has a reputation for being a liar or a cheater. It's a he-said-she-said situation, and since Midori's books are the only place the transaction is recorded, and it's very easy to make a mistake. It's hard to rely on those books as definitive proof that he intended to pay with PayPal. Receipts, as others have said, would be the way to solve this problem in the future.

Silvrdrago ... probably the only proof you have of your purchase is to show the total cash amount that you had for AX and show every other receipt, and that the only unaccounted for money is the $350 that you spent at Midori's booth. If you can actually do this, you have about the same amount of proof as she has that you didn't pay.

I really don't think silvrdrago should feel obligated to pay anything additional in a compromise if he can prove that he's "short" $350. I know I would be furious if I bought and paid for some stuff from any seller, and later was asked to pay again, because the seller's books show that money is missing and it just happens to be my transaction amount. I think the transaction amount is significant only if it is an odd amount (like ohhh 310.21) or something like that. It's just way too easy to be short $350 from multiple smaller transactions than it is to be short an odd amount (though either is technically possible).

Honestly, I think the fairest solution here would be for both sides to chalk it up as lesson learned. As for blacklisting him or not ... that's up to Midori, but people should understand that neither side has an airtight case.

Just my two yen .

[cutiebunny]

This is true CB - but when you had a customer that you sold artwork to,
didn't you see the sale all the way through to the end. I mean - didn't
you ask if it was going to be paypal or cash, and then stay with the
customer until the transaction was completed??

No, because once a customer entered Midori's booth, the transaction was taken over by someone else. I was directed to engage potential customers to enter and make sure no one swiped the artwork and other items on the table.

There's no way I could have done that duty and then take care of the rest of the transaction. And while I remember seeing a lot of RS/Beta members at Midori's booth, I don't remember seeing Silvrdrago there, so, I can't recall the specifics of his transaction.

I'm not faulting anyone here. Depending on the time of day at the booth, it got very busy and there was a lot of noise. It would not have been difficult to have overheard something or been momentarily distracted during these periods.

I hope a reasonable solution can be reached by both parties.

[Krafty]

The suggestion that SilvrDrago sould pay the full ammount again or even half of it is ludicrious! It sounds like a cock-up on Midori's part, one which obviously wasn't intentional. What seems crazy is that Midori would have handed over any artwork before a payment was made, what kind of business person does that?
The 'Midori's very trusting' excuse is tired, something that keeps rearing its head when she is mentioned. Sure, this may be true of her but I remember us having a similar discussion two years ago on Beta so she's had plenty of time to realise that goods are exchanged once money has been presented. Simple.

I'm not one to attack anybody and appreciate that she's not represented here to give her side of events, but *meh*, this is only a forum and not Judge Judy LOL. Plus I've dealt with her on numerous occasions and haven't had a problem to date so, I get on with her. ^__^

I truely hope that this situation will work itself out, I feel for SilvrDrago and understand his predicament as I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.
The only way this can be remedied is for Midori to check the takings and relaise that there's a surplus $350, thus proving SilvrDrago's argument. If it's not there, sounds like she needs some serious help with her accounting.

[jcaliff]

For less than $10, Midori can get a duplicate receipt book that will prevent this problem in the future. They sell these in Japan too, so it's not like she can't get one. The very idea that someone would go to a con as a dealer and not have something like that boggles my mind really. The whole problem would have been avoided.

[Cloud]

Let us try to break it down into parts.

[Gonzai]

Well, the funny thing is, people could have asked for receipts,
and Shoichi would have given them one. I asked for a receipt
for my stuff, and they gave me one. I know there were a few
others that asked for receipts as well. So, the pendulum swings
both ways here. Had Shoichi offered a receipt, it would have
cleared things up for both of them and had Silverdrago asked
for a receipt this wouldn't be happening. I, personally, would
not just hand someone $350 without insisting I get a receipt for
my records, but I don't have that kind of disposible income that
I don't care. When I get home, after the con, I like to add up
my receipts to verify what I have spent. You guys can say
Midori is 100% at fault here, however, how hard would it have
been to ask for a receipt? Just my 2 cents.

[JWR]

As I see things this is just going to degrade into a pissing contest which will in reality have no true winners.

I have had business dealings with both Midori & Silvrdrago and found both to be above reproch with me. I also can state that I like both very much.

The problem here is no reciept was given nor offered. In hindsight should Silvrdrago have asked for a reciept , maybe , but only if he had the forsight to think that such as an occurance like this might have happened which I think most would agree they would not.

Legally speaking from a business stand point a court of law would rule in Silvrdrago's favor since there was neither a given reciept nor a signed promise to pay via paypal. The fact she gave him the artwork would also be a strong impression she recieved payment.

As some have said Midori needs to amend her business practices and for her own protection start issuing reciepts with every purchase as well as no longer allowing a person to recieve artwork untill full payment is made.

[zerospace]

No disrespect intended here, seriously... I've never had any issues with midori -- in fact, she's been nothing but nice to me.

While I don't think either party in this is 100% to blame or 100% innocent, I do believe the lion's share of the blame rests with the business person. It is not the responsibility of the buyer to insure that the seller properly records the transaction and the payment. Yes, he could have asked for a receipt, but truthfully, he should have been offered one in the first place. I've never been one to like businesses that do not offer you a receipt. In fact, I've actually had cashiers throw my receipt away right in front of me without even asking! Most of the time, I don't care because it's for things like a cup of coffee .

But, if you're going to go home, count your cash and then proceed to threaten a buyer with blacklisting if he doesn't pay you (when he believes he did), you had better be able to prove it. The burden is on the seller to prove that the buyer never paid, in this case, not the other way around. The reason I say this is because the seller allowed the merchandise to leave the booth without a confirmed payment--so that's the seller's problem. And the only way you really prove this is if you handed out receipts to absolutely everyone who paid you, and you didn't allow your buyers to walk off with merchandise before paying. In other words, you had absolutely better be able to account for everything else beyond any doubt. And if you didn't hand receipts out to everyone who paid cash, you can't do that, because none of that cash has a "name" on it, nor can any of those folks prove that they paid either.

This is why I said before.. that both sides should drop it, and chalk it up to a lesson learned. Silvrdrago will likely remember to ask for receipts from now on, and Midori will hopefully give receipts out for every transaction.

[Gonzai]

Yes - I tend to agree with JWR and Zerospace. This is a
problem that is never going to get solved on this board,
so it should be dropped. I think there was a valuable
lesson to be learned on both sides here. I am sorry for
both Midori and Silverdrago here. There is just really
no good outcome.

[blueheaven]

I agree as well. No one in the game has a better reputation than Midori. And Drago has never been anything but honest in his dealings. I think Midori is going to have to take the hit on this one, and look at it as just another reason to start requiring receipts in the future. I also like the idea of mobile paypal. She could also set up a laptop at the booth for folks to deposit funds. Sometimes, learning experiences can be costly. It's too bad that it had to involve two great people. I also hope Midori continues to do business with Drago in the future. It really was not his fault in any way. That, of course, is up to her.

[Cloud]

It seemed like his fault in any way.

[ReiTheJelly]

Can someone on this board who has regular dealings with Midori at cons (Gonzai, CutieBunny, whoever) make sure that Midori and her husband understand the unbiased feelings of what has been said on this board - that Midori needs to use receipts. And assure American customers that she shall be using them at future AX's or other conventions. I know that although I have had no problems with Midori in the past, I am someone who cannot afford a clerical error (like this appears to be), so would be weary of purchasing from her booth... A bit of future assurance would be appreciated.

[Silvrdrago]

From my last e-mail with midori it seems she's willing to drop the matter and move on, so am i

lacking a reciet we're both pritty much stuck....when too people with good reputations argue over one persons word against another their isn't gona be a winner

further more she said she would not black list me and if i wanted to do buisness with her again that was up to me

atleast i'm pritty sure thats what her e-mail said.....her english can be cunfuseing(ambiguos) sometimes in long conversations....read it several times pritty sure i'm correct

i'd more than happy forgive and forget the whole matter ever happens......course i'll remeber to get a reciet next time...but i hope she gives them out as standered practice.....or atleast never let unpaid items leave the stand....so this confusion can never hapen agian

.....this whole discusion this week has been extrmely stressful.....would never wish it on someone else


oh yeah and thanks to whoever moved this tread to the proper folder, was at a lose as to where it belonged

[moonrabitt]

I am glad that the matter was resolved ^_^

And it too teaches me to always get a receipt when I buy cels and sketches from the dealers....

-^^

[kizu]

Glad to hear this worked out for you silvrdrago.

I've only done a single transaction with Midori but I liked the way this worked out and won't hesitate to do business with her. Of course as has been mentioned many times already a receipt for those paid should help her run her business immensely. So would an invoice for items not paid for yet.

Of course for us collectors, this is a good lesson to remember to ask for receipts to save us hassles down the road. I know I too take this forgranted sometimes.