Question....?

kathpatty · Post by **kathpatty** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:26 am

Am I correct in assuming a replica shikishi, would be all copied and have no original autograph or hand drawn original picture...?

One in question....
http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/item ... 1332900001

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:48 pm

It's wrote on it "Description : all replica"

Sounds not good, and to be a color Xerox

Keropi · Post by **Keropi** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:21 pm

Looks like the whole thing is a copy replica to me.

The starting price is so low and the writing is so neat and well placed on the piece. Usually shikishi writing is not so neat like that.

But I'm not a shikishi or Hikaru no Go expert so someone else should know more than me.

kathpatty · Post by **kathpatty** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:26 pm

Thanks for the help

Kata · Post by **Kata** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:29 pm

My guess is that it's one of those Replica that a lot of Manga stores use for display and promoting a Manga series. I seen many of them in Anime and Manga stores in Japan when I was over there.
I believe after the promotion is over they end up on Yahoo Japan to be sold to make some money of them, since I seen lots of them over the years on there.

They produce lots of them and give them to stores for promotion and they all copies.

You might want to ask Mandarake directly if that's one of those or not.

Good Luck!

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:32 pm

Granted, I'm not a shikishi pro - I've only been purchasing them off and on for the last 6 months or so.

But there is no set rule when it comes to shikishi. The majority of replica shikishi are replicas - the signature and the picture are just copies. However, in some cases, the signatures are original. I figure that, what happens at a lot of signing sessions, is that they just pass out a generic board with the artist's characters on it and everyone has to use it during the signing session. Some artists have odd rules when it comes to signing sessions - no pictures, no talking to the artist, shikishi must be addressed to you specifically, etc.

But, as already mentioned, the replica shikishi with signatures are generally released to bookstores as promotional items. They're displayed next to the manga and, after the promotion is over, end up at auction.

In the case of the Hikaru no Go shikishi, it's hard to say since the signatures are done in black. I would assume that the signatures are replicas as well. Normally, Mandarake will specify if the signature is original.

Hope this helps.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:33 pm

Hell, what you all wrote is frightening, so this is nothing more than a counterfeit !!!

How a major store like Mandarake can sell such art without the "COPY" written mention on the art, that's insane and barely legal ???!!!

What about those ones :

Everyday auction Replica : http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/item ... 2080100001
BWA Original : http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/item ... 2580100002

Bet which one will go on YJA in 2 weeks, the copy, but with the picture in the Yahoo announce. And then hand after hand, you'll lost the trace routing of the art.

Two words : BOYCOTT replicas.

zerospace · Post by **zerospace** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:40 pm

Using the term "counterfeit" implies it was illegally produced. These are produced by the manga companies to promote their items -- that's hardly illegal. Last I checked, marketing items are totally legal.

Oh, and the auction in the original post DOES say "all replica". I think that about covers it.

jenn-b · Post by **jenn-b** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:58 pm

You are correct zerospace. And more often than that, the actual studios will put out these copies. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal about it.

Post by **Kaona** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:14 pm

A good rule of thumb for the Mandarake auctions is to look at the opening price. The starting price is the price they paid for the item, plus profit, so an item with very low starting price isn't likely to be anything remarkable or of high value. Of course everything bid over the opening amount is additional profit for Mandarake.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:33 pm

zerospace wrote:Using the term "counterfeit" implies it was illegally produced.

If the studio handle the operation this depends if the studios owns the rights on a repro (sometimes yes, sometimes not). There are normally wroten notes on the art that specify this is a unique copy or a serial copy with a secial number.
A reproduction transfered from a support (the master) to another (the copy) without a clear specification is a counterfeit.

jenn-b wrote:You are correct zerospace. And more often than that, the actual studios will put out these copies. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal about it.

Got it, so that means that in Japan there's no need to specify copy except in the announce title. Mmmmmmh... That's terribly dangerous for market quality. Especially if this reappear in a year, framed on YJA.

yoshito · Post by **yoshito** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:28 pm

iceman57 wrote:
zerospace wrote:Using the term "counterfeit" implies it was illegally produced.
If the studio handle the operation this depends if the studios owns the rights on a repro (sometimes yes, sometimes not). There are normally wroten notes on the art that specify this is a unique copy or a serial copy with a secial number.
A reproduction transfered from a support (the master) to another (the copy) without a clear specification is a counterfeit.

jenn-b wrote:You are correct zerospace. And more often than that, the actual studios will put out these copies. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal about it.
Got it, so that means that in Japan there's no need to specify copy except in the announce title. Mmmmmmh... That's terribly dangerous for market quality. Especially if this reappear in a year, framed on YJA.

You are using the word, counterfeit, incorrectly. The definition of counterfeit is:

Merriam Webster Dictionary wrote:counterfeit (adj): made in imitation of something else with the intent to deceive

Also your comment that any copy without a serial number, note or other markings is not real is not always the case, just as most artwork does not come with a certificate of authenticity from the studio.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:49 pm

yoshito wrote:You are using the word, counterfeit, incorrectly.

From a legal point of view, this is a larger definition. Transfert art from a support to another or usurpate a brand (an anime name in this case) enters in the category too.

yoshito wrote:Just as most artwork does not come with a certificate of authenticity from the studio.

Yeah you're right

klet · Post by **klet** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:56 pm

iceman57 wrote:
yoshito wrote:You are using the word, counterfeit, incorrectly.
From a legal point of view, this is a larger definition. Transfert art from a support to another or usurpate a brand (an anime name in this case) enters in the category too.

Laws differ from country to country, though.

I've never heard of promotional items like the shikishi on mandarake being illegal. It's like saying that you can't resell a poster . . .

I know your concern is that someone will try to sell it as an original down the road, but that's a concern with any collectible item. For example, someone could try to sell a poster, stating that it's a hanken cel (a few years back, someone entered a poster in the hanken category for the beta awards). At that point, it's the seller being dishonest, and it's up to the buyer to attempt to judge if the goods in question are what the seller claims they are. Does that mean that posters are illegal and counterfeit?

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:30 pm

klet wrote:I know your concern is that someone will try to sell it as an original down the road

Exactly my mind