Sales closed.

[Nelia]

Thank you!

[iceman57]

Ahem,... well... apologies for coming inconvenience but put back on the market a signed "fan cel" by the designer will certainly make future sellers say "this is an original, signed by designer Nobuteru Yuki".

Aren't they enough problematic and hasardous items on the web to not have to include other one ? Apologies again for inconvenience but I definitively can't encourage this item to be sold. This cel has to stay in your private collection and not to go back on the cel market to avoid to entertain possible false attribution to be an original production cel due to signature.

[Eternal Wind]

Nelia cannot control dishonesty that may or may not rise in a future owner of that fan cel. She can only do what she's obligated to do, and that's to let everyone know it's fan cel.

I think what concerns me more is that there is a fellow collector telling Nelia what she "has" to do.. Perhaps a gentler wording may have been more appropriate.

Good luck with your sale, Nelia. I'm certain no one in the community will worry what you've already clearly marked as being a fan cel. What anyone else may do in the future is certainly not a weight for you to have to bear.

[sensei]

Anime artists don't sign cels.

The only thing I've seen that resembles a "signature" in Japanese animation are are the little stamps that certain animation directors use on roughs and layouts. If you'd asked an artist to put his/her personal stamp on a fan's sketch of a favorite character, then there might be an issue.

Maybe if there were an industry to grow up in having well known artists sign cels, like Chuck Jones signed zillions of WB cels, production and otherwise, there might be. But for an anime cel, there's none. In this case, probably the autograph is more valuable than the art, however well done it might be.

[Nelia]

Iceman - It's marked in my gallery as a fan cel, and it is a square sheet of acetate with no registration holes, studio names, or anything. I have never, nor will I ever, try to pass off something fake as real, and I'm not stating that Yuki drew that - I am obligated to state that it IS a fan cel with a real signature on it. Give me a bit more credit than that. And no, I will not mark anything on the back of the cel. :\ It's very painfully obvious that it is not any kind of original piece, and any buyer will be made 100% aware that they are pretty much buying the piece FOR the autograph.

All in all, Iceman, do not tell me what I can or cannot sell from my legit gallery.

Sensei is right - the autograph IS more valuable than the art. I paid dollars for the art. I met Yuki at Otakon some years ago, and not only got my picture with him but I also had him sign another piece of mine (smiling Van, as seen in my gallery). Those were the only two pieces of Escaflowne art I had at the time, and Yuki had no qualms with signing a fan cel, and actually asked if I had done it myself, because he said it was very lovely.

Thanks Sensei and ChibiUsa... I really appreciate the support. You guys made my day.

[iceman57]

My goal wasn't to harm or damage, simply to notify that coupling a non production cel with a true production signature, and bringing this bundle item back on the market will false the Nobuteru Yuki's name.

Not a matter that you honestly explain that this is a fan cel, but think about future owners, cels generally move in several collections/countries and each time the original story that you explained of "did you make yourself" from the artist turns to a fairy tale, betting that in years, cel will come back on YJA or through collectors sales with mention "original preliminary work signed by Nobuteru Yuki".

This is your item, your money raise. But if this is only a matter of cash, then send me a paypal link and I'll send you the $30 to keep it at your side and avoid to bring this item back on the market with the attached collateral damages.

[cutiebunny]

Just as an FYI, I've had an artist sign a cel. Granted, I placed a blank layer of acetate on top of the cel for the signature(so as not to ruin the cel). But I've had it done, and I've seen some every so often on Mandarake that have featured seiyuu signing cels of the characters that they voiced. I think that, at least in the US, it's far more common to see cels signed by various artists/seiyuu.

Anywho, I believe that Nelia is entitled to do whatever she wants to do with her signed fancel. If she wants to sell it, that's her choice. If she wants to burn it, that's her choice too. Although it's been many years since I've seen Escaflowne, I can tell that it's a fan cel. I would assume that any collector can also tell that it is a fan cel as well. In regards to YJ, I can see the reverse happening - those who are interested would assume that the signature is also fake because the cel is not from Escaflowne's production.

Iceman, I can respect that you are trying to make the collecting world safer for those who want signed goods, but I don't think that telling others what they can and can not sell is the way to go about doing it. I think it would be wise to just speak with your money. If you don't agree with what a seller is doing, you don't have to buy their items.

[kakarototo]

Anime artists don't sign cels.

The only thing I've seen that resembles a "signature" in Japanese animation are are the little stamps that certain animation directors use on roughs and layouts. If you'd asked an artist to put his/her personal stamp on a fan's sketch of a favorite character, then there might be an issue.

Maybe if there were an industry to grow up in having well known artists sign cels, like Chuck Jones signed zillions of WB cels, production and otherwise, there might be. But for an anime cel, there's none. In this case, probably the autograph is more valuable than the art, however well done it might be.

o.ox nabuhiro watsuki didn't refuse to sign my kenshin cel

[Nelia]

I think Sensei meant sign them as in authorizing that the cel was made by their hand, perhaps in the corner the way artists typically sign their works. The way we get ours signed the seiyuu or artist writes a bit large, where the focus will be on their signature as well as the art.

I've had tons of cels signed by seiyuu as well as creators and producers.

[sensei]

Basically, yes, that's what I meant. With American animation art, it's common to have art marketed with a COA and the director's signature directly on the cel. With high profile artists like Chuck Jones, however, the signature does not certify that the cel was used; most "Chuck Jones" cels are repros, and probably the same with Don Bluth, Ralph Bakshi, etc. etc.

(A quick check of the latter's website turns up a production LotR cel that explicitly says, "Bakshi Will Sign This - Please let us know if you would like it signed when checking out!")

But, so far as I know, this is a marketing idea that has not caught on yet with Japanese animation art. For instance, I'm not aware that Studio Ghibli has attempted to market real or repro cels with Miyazaki's signature. I don't know that the signature would lead to damage of the cel, but for me the "autographing" of the object already occurred when it went under the camera in the production of the series, so the addition of a signature would be irrelevant.

But I don't have any strong opinion about whether it's wrong to do so (and voted "Don't care" in the poll now going in the other thread). It just struck me that having a fan cel autographed by a Japanese animation artist did not strike me as being even hypothetically unethical.

(It's probably more unethical to have a real American animation artist sign an officially authorized repro cel ... but then I know that Thomas Kinkade signs all those icky color copies they make of his oil paintings and gets thousands of dollars per copy for doing so. IIRC, Salvador Dali, before his death, signed thousands of blank sheets of paper, which were subsequently used by his estate to reproduce copies of his lithos and sold as "authentic Dali prints." That too strikes me as shady -- and not at all relevant to Nelia's fancel. )

[Nelia]

The piece in question has been sold to a private Rubberslugger who was made well aware that the fan cel is just that, and the signature is indeed authentic. Hopefully she'll post it in her gallery once it arrives.

Wonderful discussion, however, it's so nice to see a good debate!

[Nelia]

Removed sold, adjusted prices, added new ones!

[Nelia]

Thank you all for the wonderful support in giving so many cels good homes.

I have proceeded to close any further cels from my gallery and focus on those higher end cels from Bebop and very specific wishlist cels from Ah My Goddess. I even have a wishlist update coming soon for two pieces!

Thank you again and I look forward to lurking about the forums.