Undisplayable Artwork

[cutiebunny]

(I tried to think of a better title to the topic.....)

Anyways, do you have any artwork that, for whatever reason, you've been told that you can not display?

And, if you do, have you ever tried to contact the seller concerning the artwork, say, years later, and ask if it was possible to display it? How did it work out?

I thought I'd bring this up because, recently, I purchased a piece of original manga artwork. When I bought the item, the seller did not mention anything about the inability to display it. When the item arrived, though, I received, in the wording of a COA, that I was prohibited from displaying the item either in a museum or online without prior written permission. The paper looks pretty official with seals, serial numbers and stuff...

...I guess that COAs are slowly making their way into the anime industry? I've started to see a few of these surface around 'original' manga pages lately.

As I mentioned on another topic here, I also have some Airbender stuff that I received years ago, but I have never tried to contact the original seller & ask for permission to display it. I don't think it might be the time right now, especially with the live action movie coming out.

[ReiTheJelly]

I have never knowingly purchased anything that could not be publicly displayed. To have a seller tell me I can't display a piece sends up an inordinate number of red flags. The only logical reason would be that the material is stolen goods, and I refuse to participate in any of those shenanigans.
With original art, it may be a different story. Especially if the image has been used elsewhere in copyrighted materials (like a magazine or book).


You should contact the person you purchased this original art from and ask for clarification (or permission). I wonder how high up the chain you need to go to obtain permission? From the manga-ka directly? Because that seems fairly unfeasible...

[cutiebunny]

With original art, it may be a different story. Especially if the image has been used elsewhere in copyrighted materials (like a magazine or book).

In the case that I mentioned, it is an original page used for a manga that has been copyrighted and released(in several different languages) worldwide.

You should contact the person you purchased this original art from and ask for clarification (or permission). I wonder how high up the chain you need to go to obtain permission? From the manga-ka directly? Because that seems fairly unfeasible...

I've wondered if this new step has been taken to prevent things like the large Osamu Tezuka exhibit that was featured in various cities throughout the world from occurring. At least in my city, that exhibit brought in a lot of money for the museum, as I imagine it probably did in the other cities where the exhibit was featured. But this display was in 2008, and Tezuka was long dead by then.

[Sky Rat]

I wish you could display the airbender artwork!! I would LOVE to see that.

What manga art did you purchase?? (or are you not even supposed to talk about it?)

[Keropi]

No, I don't have anything someone directly told me not to display. A couple times sellers have asked me not to post and/or talk about something for 2-4 years if I bought something, but I never bought those items specifically.

Sometimes I think there's kind of an unstated agreement about not drawing too much attention to something just based off the way the seller is displaying said items, but that's just me.

The details of an acquisition grow foggier and foggier with the passage of time.

[graymouser]

I find it dishonest that the seller did not mention this until after the sale was completed. This is a very important piece of information and is something that should have been made clear right from the start. IMHO artwork is meant to be shared and appreciated and not hidden away. The price I am willing to pay drops if I have to hide it.

Rei makes another good point. The seller's sneakiness in not telling you up front makes me suspicious that this item is either a fake or was stolen.

I have artwork that I have been asked to not display, but each time the sellers let me know right away. In all but one case the seller told me the reason why it needed to be hidden. (Even the case where I trusted the seller's good reputation without an explanation, I found out anyways by different means). In all of these cases, it was because feelings would have been hurt and/or relationships damaged if the images were shown.

Getting back to the original question, if I knew that the relationship or situation has changed with the seller, I would ask about displaying the artwork. I think it would also be fine to check with the seller if several years (4-5) had passed.

[cutiebunny]

I'd be hard pressed to believe that the manga page is a fake - I checked several times before I purchased it against the final version. Everything checks. It's also drawn on studio B4 sized paper and features the dialogue in pencil. It's similar to the Tezuka ones I saw in the exhibit - same size, same manner of dialogue(Tezuka also had ones where the dialogue was printed and then copy/pasted in the dialogue boxes). Also, as in the case of Tezuka, you could see some of the rough pencil marks still left behind. If you're familiar with artists, you know that they don't bust out a hanken level drawing in a couple of minutes. They sketch it out - such as by drawing the face first as a circle and than elongating the lines to whatever angle they need the face to be at. There are additional notes/art on the side that go beyond the border, which, to me, indicates that the artist arranged it into panel form after the sketches were done. These side notes/artwork do not make it into the final cut and are not printed in the final version. Unless the counterfeiter had inside access, there is no way that this could be duplicated.

As for the series, since it's still in print, I'd rather not say the name at this time. It is from a very popular series, though.

The wording of the letter sounds like whoever sold the item was well aware that the intermediary(seller) had already lined up a buyer(me) and that it was being sold to me through the third party.

I would not be surprised if it was obtained through illicit means. A lot of artwork is smuggled out of studios. At least in the case of Madhouse, they only held onto a few choice pieces. All the other stuff was considered 'waste' and was disposed of by other means. However, in regards to manga pages, I think it depends on the manga-ka. I've heard rumors before that, in the case of the Sailormoon manga, the original pages disappeared while under Kodansha's care. But then, I see manga pages from 'Sakura Taisen' on YJ all the time and it does not appear that there's been any crackdown on those.

I could post the letter, but, since I'd erase any information that could identify it(ie. serial number, hanko, signature, names), it might not even be worth it.

[iceman57]

I've wondered if this new step has been taken to prevent things like the large Osamu Tezuka exhibit that was featured in various cities throughout the world from occurring. At least in my city, that exhibit brought in a lot of money for the museum, as I imagine it probably did in the other cities where the exhibit was featured. But this display was in 2008, and Tezuka was long dead by then.

General law of property is 70 years after the death of the author (fluctuates from a country to another)... so for Tezuka, still attached to his family/right owners till 2060.
Note that due to brand property, the art possession can be longer renewed. If this is a so hot item, simply ask the Tezuka production for an electronic public display licence (they'll tell you maximum pixel size, DPI resolution, and costs per display time).

In the case that I mentioned, it is an original page used for a manga that has been copyrighted and released(in several different languages) worldwide.

The sheet is (I suppose) in japanese language, consequently you can be suited only by the japanese brand for licence counterfeit.
Other country suits are not relevant due to the fact that they paid a repro licence and a translation licence to this japanese brand.

[jenn-b]

I have too much that I cannot display. And not for the reasons of it being stolen. It's complicated, and somewhat annoying. I paid good money for my items and I feel that I should be able to show them to whomever I want.

I'm almost to the point of just showing everything and saying the hell with it. But I'm in a bit of a snark right now...

[sensei]

No, I've not been asked by a seller not to display. However, I have been asked not to resell some items. These were especially cherished pieces that the person did not want to lose sight of, so they came to me with the understanding that they would never be put up for offers or sold to a third party.

The issue of copyright is a difficult one, as the owner of the intellectual property (the character design, series, etc.) logically should share rights with the owner of the physical property (the cel, sketch, background, etc.). Yet, so long as the cel is not used as the basis for spin-off for-profit products (e.g., a giclee limited edition based on a high-quality scan of a cel in your collection), I'm not sure that the matter impacts those of us with cel galleries.

Yet.

[Sky Rat]

It’s not relevant yet in this particular case, since the manga art is too recent, but Iceman is right on the copyright law. After a certain point of time (I think I’d agree its 70 years) any image becomes public property.

Working in manufacturing I see famous images get used all the time without having to acquire any permission or copyright, etc. So long as that time period has expired there’s nothing anyone can do about it. So…I guess your grandkids can display those things, heh.

[Animechaos]

Back in my collecting days I've had several sellers say, "I'll sell this to you but don't display it on the web." or "If I sell this to you please don't resell it."

Of course once I had the cel in my hands I did whatever I pleased. Once an item becomes your property the former owner, regardless of the stipulations they tried to impose, can't tell you want to do with it. Would you buy a car if the seller stated you can't ever make a right turn with it? Thats just plain silly, and the seller doesn't have the power to do that legally or otherwise.

The reason sellers make those silly requests is because they're trying to protect themselves. They got the cel from a contact or some silly arrangement and don't want them to know they're out making a few $$$.

So if anyone owns some cels or whatever that you bought with some silly pre-condition....well....ignore it, display it, and be happy with your purchase.

[Gonzai]

Back in my collecting days I've had several sellers say, "I'll sell this to you but don't display it on the web." or "If I sell this to you please don't resell it."

Of course once I had the cel in my hands I did whatever I pleased. Once an item becomes your property the former owner, regardless of the stipulations they tried to impose, can't tell you want to do with it. Would you buy a car if the seller stated you can't ever make a right turn with it? Thats just plain silly, and the seller doesn't have the power to do that legally or otherwise.

The reason sellers make those silly requests is because they're trying to protect themselves. They got the cel from a contact or some silly arrangement and don't want them to know they're out making a few $$$.

So if anyone owns some cels or whatever that you bought with some silly pre-condition....well....ignore it, display it, and be happy with your purchase.

Looks up at Jenn's post, flairs arms to get Jenn's attention
and points to this post!!

Very well said!! I think that everyone should feel this way!!

[zerospace]

Back in my collecting days I've had several sellers say, "I'll sell this to you but don't display it on the web." or "If I sell this to you please don't resell it."

Of course once I had the cel in my hands I did whatever I pleased. Once an item becomes your property the former owner, regardless of the stipulations they tried to impose, can't tell you want to do with it. Would you buy a car if the seller stated you can't ever make a right turn with it? Thats just plain silly, and the seller doesn't have the power to do that legally or otherwise.

The reason sellers make those silly requests is because they're trying to protect themselves. They got the cel from a contact or some silly arrangement and don't want them to know they're out making a few $$$.

So if anyone owns some cels or whatever that you bought with some silly pre-condition....well....ignore it, display it, and be happy with your purchase.

While I totally share this sentiment, I can also understand the flip side, which is that if you do what you want with the piece, and the seller finds out, you just may burn a bridge. If the seller isn't a regular source of artwork, maybe this is OK with you. So, yes, you have the right to do what you want with it, so long as you don't feel guilty for being dishonest, yourself.

Personally, if I didn't like the idea of having to hide artwork, I just wouldn't buy it. Thankfully, I have never been put in this position. That said, I think there are only a few pieces of artwork that I would even consider buying with a stipulation like that on them.

[jcaliff]

I wanted to buy some Nadesico cels back in the day. Specifically, some Gekigangar cels. But the seller specifically said, "you can't display these on the web if you buy them". So I didn't buy them. I don't like anyone telling me what I can and can't do with something I own. In retrospect, and now that Nadesico cels are all over the internet, I wish I had bought them anyway. But it's too late now.