Sorry If This Has Been Asked Before But...FRAMING~!

[xXElysionsPrincessXx]

Hi guys!
So. I'm going to get my cel framed in plexiglass/UV protect glass this weekend.

Dumb question: Do you frame the cel in the cel bag, or no?

And I want to frame the sketch next to it. Is this a good idea, bad idea...?

Any information about framing would be extremely helpful! I'm GOING to frame it though, so please don't try to talk me out of it ;D I just want to take the best care of it I can while it's in a frame. I'm planning on covering the frame with a piece of cloth (to act as a curtain) when I'm not showing the cel off.

[iceman57]

So. I'm going to get my cel framed in plexiglass/UV protect glass this weekend.

Same material here, 0.01" width.
Artcare anti-acidic matte and non phenolic/painted wood framing.

Do you frame the cel in the cel bag, or no?

Bag concentrates acidic fumes increasing damages, remove it for your art lifetime safety.

And I want to frame the sketch next to it. Is this a good idea, bad idea...?

The acetic acid pollutant emited by anime cel degradation damages paper, consequently for long time conservation it is not recommanded.
I do personnaly prefer to frame cel and its preliminary sketch in a unique frame in order to display the full process and discuss with framers about the possible ways to mix full process display and safety of arts.

[sensei]

Worth noting: Bags Unlimited has recently added MicroChamber Paper and boards to its goods. These absorb gases that lead to paper deterioration and also buffer acidity. They come in a variety of sizes but, as I understand, do not need to be the same size at the item to be beneficial. (They recommend tucking one or two inside comic books to hold back the usual browning and brittling process.)

http://www.bagsunlimited.com/p-1543-mic ... paper.aspx

I also plan to try putting one in with a cel (not where it can stick to the paint) to see if it holds back the puckering of the cel bag caused by fumes from the cel. You should consider interleaving one with the sketch, however it it is framed, and possibly having one inside the frame, kept physically separated from the cel but in a place where it can pick up and neutralize the fumes.

I understand that one normal strategy with cels is to have two mats, one in front and one in back, so that there is an air space behind the cel that keeps it from sticking to the mat behind it.

Thanks for being concerned with the cel's long-term health.

[iceman57]

Worth noting: Bags Unlimited has recently added MicroChamber Paper and boards to its goods. These absorb gases that lead to paper deterioration and also buffer acidity. They come in a variety of sizes but, as I understand, do not need to be the same size at the item to be beneficial. (They recommend tucking one or two inside comic books to hold back the usual browning and brittling process.)

http://www.bagsunlimited.com/p-1543-mic ... paper.aspx

I also plan to try putting one in with a cel (not where it can stick to the paint) to see if it holds back the puckering of the cel bag caused by fumes from the cel. You should consider interleaving one with the sketch, however it it is framed, and possibly having one inside the frame, kept physically separated from the cel but in a place where it can pick up and neutralize the fumes.

I understand that one normal strategy with cels is to have two mats, one in front and one in back, so that there is an air space behind the cel that keeps it from sticking to the mat behind it.

Thanks for being concerned with the cel's long-term health.

Announced on their production plant website as being 200 times better than Artcare museum standard, especially on acetic acid.
Got their sales department on the line months ago but am facing strong difficulties (customs ?) to import those Zeolite active materials for tests.

[star-phoenix]

I prefer to do my own framing just because of experience and it saves a heck of a lot on costs. But, here are the basic rules I follow:

1). Every must be 100% acid free. Do NOT get any mattes, mounting boards, etc without them guaranteeing 100% acid free. For mattes, I generally get the museum conservation matting (especially for my Disney cels) and they offer the best preservation.

2). I USUALLY double/triple matte, one (or two with an overlap) in front, and the last one on the back to separate the cel from the backing.

3). I always use a 100% acid free conservation backing board for the back to close the cel/sketch into the frame.

4). Use 98% UV protected PLEXI-glass/acrylic glass for the front. I recommend AGAINST glass frames as they will shatter and damage your art if your art falls onto the ground or suffers an accident.

5). I personally do not use any kind of cel bag with my cels just because it does take out some of the beauty of the art. I have some cels that I framed about 11 years ago with out any cel bags, and they still look absolutely gorgeous. Also, in my opinion, the cels need to be able to breathe more. And since they will be enclosed in 100% acid free matte boards + a 100% acid free archival backing, then you should be safe with that.

6). I personally do not see any problem framing the cel and sketch together so long as they are physically separated and do not touch. You would mat and back them the same method as above, but make sure they do not touch.

7). If you have to use tape to secure the art, make sure you use 100% acid free archival tape and the ones that do not leave behind a residue. I actually bought a HUGE roll on Ebay the other day for $17.95 (200 feet long). The best part about this is you can also use it as a "dust cover" to cover the gaps int he back to guard against dust. I ended up using this method on one of my art pieces where I would have otherwise had to use 3 separate dust covers just to cover the back of the frame because it was so large. But, this is basically up to you.

But, most of all, enjoy your artwork! I absolutely LOVE seeing my art pieces framed. Once I get enough extra funds to play with, I plan to frame most of my Anime sketch and cel collection, especially since I am working on bringing some on exhibition with a local museum.

[xXElysionsPrincessXx]

Okay thanks so much you guys!
So what I've compiled is:

Use acid free matt board
Do not frame in the cel bag
Do (not?) frame the sketch (still a bit of confusion here for me! xD)
Frame using PLEXI-glass UV protect

Anything else I need to know? I don't know how I'll be able to get the artwork to stay down because I can't afford to buy any special tape and such.

For those of you that live by a Joann's or Micheal's, do you think the custom framers there will do an adequate job? They are what is available to me, and I can't really do anything else. But if they aren't able to do it correctly, I'd rather not use them at all. :/

Thank you~~

[pixie_princess]

Okay thanks so much you guys!
So what I've compiled is:

Use acid free matt board
Do not frame in the cel bag
Do (not?) frame the sketch (still a bit of confusion here for me! xD)
Frame using PLEXI-glass UV protect

Anything else I need to know? I don't know how I'll be able to get the artwork to stay down because I can't afford to buy any special tape and such.

For those of you that live by a Joann's or Micheal's, do you think the custom framers there will do an adequate job? They are what is available to me, and I can't really do anything else. But if they aren't able to do it correctly, I'd rather not use them at all. :/

Thank you~~

Hi. I think I spoke with you on one of the Sailor Moon LJ groups.

Here is a recommendation:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Photo-Cor ... B00004ZCLV

Make extra sure they understand NOT TO TRIM/Cut/Crop the cel.

[xXElysionsPrincessXx]

Hi! Yep, that was me! ^^ Just making sure I have all my information straight before I head to the framers haha. I don't want to mess up! Thanks so much again for all the advice! You really helped out a lot!

I'm going to write down the name and try and find that at a local store. Do you think I should try and mat the piece myself (I know how) and then just have them make a frame for the matted piece, or should I leave it to them to mat? @_@ Sorry for all the questions!

[duotrouble]

Well, I went thread searching and couldn't find what I was looking for. We've had several threads about framing but I was going to show you the horror thread about framing just so you were totally prepared for anything not to scare you away from it.

Baylor went to Michael's to get framing done on a sketch. It was ruined. It looks really nice framed. I've seen it in person. But there is no way it can ever be removed from the frame since the person used heat. NEVER USE HEAT. Someone else, can't remember who at the moment, said they also had a really bad experience at Michael's.

I framed several cels at Deck the Walls. None of my cels were framed in bags but they all had archival separators keeping the cel from touching anything on the inside. Even the cels with multiple layers and backgrounds are all separated away from each other. Although, if I had to go back in time, I wouldn't frame any of my cels for 3 major reasons.

1. It's expensive if you get it done professionally and a time consuming hassle if you do it yourself.

2. It's so much easier to store your artwork in Itoya folders and no worries about line fading from indirect light. (Obviously, you'd never hang them in direct light.)

3. Resale value. I find it's harder to sell a framed piece than one that's not framed. I know the first thought through your mind is but I'll never sell this one. That's exactly what I thought with several and wound up 8 years later changing my mind.

Best of luck to you!

[xXElysionsPrincessXx]

I wasn't planning on framing the sketch under the cel, but thank you for the warning! So you suggest I should place something between the cel and the mat board and the glass in front? Could you please further explain that for me, if it's not too much hassle?

And thank you for the information about Micheal's. I will probably go with Joann's instead because of that.

The only reason I want to frame it is for kind of a silly reason. The cel was purchased to go with my Sailor Moon collection. ^^; So it needs to be displayed, not placed in a folder. I'm not all too concerned with resale value, but I appreciate your concerns!!

[star-phoenix]

Yeah, I was the other person with the horrific experience at Michaels where they used some really strong glue/tape to secure the cel onto the matte board and it ripped the cel.

As far as layers, this is what I do


98% UV protective plexi --> matte board (1 or 2 depending on whether you want two colors overlapping) --> cel --> spacers or other matte board --> background (if you have, otherwise skip this part) --> archival 100% acid free mounting board (do NOT get a self adhesive one) --> then optional dust cover or just use archival tape to seal the gaps for dust-free storage.

The cel looks great, breathes, and you can always take it out later if you decide to sell it. Harder to take out with a dust cover though.

If going to Joanne's make sure they KNOW about framing art pieces and to not use tape on the sketch (or even cel), glue, or whatever crap they have. Only 100% acid free archival tape.

[xXElysionsPrincessXx]

So there would be a piece of matte board underneath the glass, before the cel? O_O My apologies, I seem to have gotten confused here! This is the last thing I think I need clarification on however.

Thank you so much again for your continuted assistance!

[animeobsessed]

I have had several cels framed and I thought the individuals at Micheal's knew what they were doing and understood my instructions. However, after having to have one taken apart because of a mouth layer separating I started wondering about them.

So I carefully took the framing apart and found that even though I was told they would not tape the cel and would use corner holders to keep the cel in place, there was a strip of tape on the whole top side. I was able to remove it with De-Solv-IT (suggestion from another beta member).

It was upsetting to find out what I was told was not done. Now, I am slowing taking apart all my framed cels.

I do have to say they used archival everything and a used matte board to separate the cel from the background.

[sensei]

So there would be a piece of matte board underneath the glass, before the cel?

Yes, that's normal with most art. Don't let the cel touch the glass in front or the background/mounting board behind.

Keep in mind that most cels have some parts of the lines painted on front. These are the parts that show up as short darker streaks when the trace lines on the back start to fade. They will stick to the glass if you let the two stay in contact for long, and then peel off when you take it out later.

Thanks again for taking trouble over the health of the cel.

[xXElysionsPrincessXx]

animeobsessed- I'm so sorry to hear about your experience! At least you are taking the time to warn others now. I really appreciate your input!!

Sensei- I think I understand what you mean. So "frame" the cel in matte board, then place it behind the UV PLEXI-glass, then use another piece of matte board underneath the cel, sealing it in with archival acid free tape. Got it. I think.

Thanks again so much!!