The different kinds of cels...

For the n00bs of cel collecting and production art . . . and for some of us old-timers, too. Post your questions on anything that puzzles you.
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kizu
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The different kinds of cels...

Post by kizu »

I should probably know this by now... But after speaking to a seller a week or so ago, I'm not totally confused as to what kind are what cels...

What are storyboard cels?
What is a test cel?
What are Hanken cels?
What are promotional cels?

I'm not asking for the usual description like hanken cels are used for commercial purposes like dvd covers, cds, etc. I'm trying to be more specific here... Like do we expect to see sequence numbers on them? Do we see xeroxed lines or inked lines like hanken... When is a purported test cel / storyboard cel not that type at all... What makes a cel definitely a hanken cel (or insert type here)? Are there exceptions?

/omg
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Angelic-Lair
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Post by Angelic-Lair »

Just thought we'd weigh in here...

In our opinion, hanken cels must be defined by their purpose, not the methods used to produce them, as production methods can vary.

Some of the shows we collect from used cels that have hand-inked trace lines. These cels are not hankens, at least not in our opinion.

All of the hanken cels we own have hand-inked lines. We've heard of some that supposedly don't. We've also heard hanken cels with Xerox trace lines being referred to as test cels - the assumption being that the final product had hand-inked lines. While we can't say if that's true or not, we're very cautious of hanken cels that do not have hand-inked trace lines.

As far as hanken cels go, we've never seen one with a sequence number. However, some of the hanken sketches we own do have a sequence number in the upper right corner. That's simply because the studio re-used an image from the game/show for merchandising.

In our opinion, once the image is used for merchandising, it becomes a hanken.
Hope this helps! :)
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graymouser
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Post by graymouser »

I would agree with Angelic-Lair. I have heard that hankens only have hand painted lines, but I am not convinced that is the case. I have a hankens with Xerox copy lines. One of them is for a poster for the Escaflowne movie. It was used when the movie was released in video form - basically to be displayed at a rental shop. I own a poster that was created from it. The cel is hand painted. The lines are Xerox copy lines though. I would still refer to it as a hanken.

I suspect that the difference between hand painted lines versus copy lines has more to do with WHEN the cel was created than anything else. At least that is how it works for production cels. Most shows that I collect from have copy lines, but I do have a few cels that are older and have hand painted lines. These include my Last Unicorn cels, Incredible Mr. Limpet cel, and Tony the Tiger cel. None of these would be considered hankens (or American equivalent) cels. They are just regular movie/commercial cels.

I think a test cel is what is used to help decide the final look and colors to be used for a character/clothing/items. I also tend to think of them being only used for shows that are cel-based. I can't see the point of making a test cel if the show was to be CG. For color matching and decision-making, it would make more sense to use the same medium that the show is going to be created in.

I am even more iffy on the definition of promotional cels. I tend to think of them as being used as a marketing technique to potential fans. They are given away or sold as cels. They are not used to create other products. This would separate them from a hanken that is used to create another type of promotional/mechandising item such as a poster, DVD cover, or image for a magazine.

I have to admit that I am confused by the term storyboard cels. I have never used that term before and don't know what it is referring to.

I agree with Angelic-Lair. I see the function of the cels as what determines what type they are and not how they are made. I would not go by the lines or even numbers in the corner.
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cutiebunny
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Post by cutiebunny »

With regards to the numbering of hanken cels, I think it varies by the anime.

All of the Sailormoon hanken cels I have have a 'star' in the upper right hand corner of the cel.

But the Pokemon hanken I own has a number on the left side. It says "No. xxx".

It's possible that studio also plays a role too. I don't know as all the hanken I own were done by different studios.

So, I would say that there is no real rule in regards to how numbering goes.

Hanken lines can either be done with xerox or they can be hand inked. I would say that it varies by studio, how much money they're willing to spend and the purpose of the hanken. All of the DVD hankens I own were hand inked. I do not have any hankens with xerox lines, but, they do exist.

Some 'regular' TV/movie cels were done with hand inked lines as well. This is more common with older cels, like those from the original Astroboy production. That's probably why the first few anime featured less cels/minute than shows from the 1980s/1990s - there's only so many a person can make when they're doing them by hand.

I agree with Angelic Lair - once it's used for a promotion, it's a hanken. The hardest part, though, is identifying where it came from. Some anime are easier to identify than others - CCS made artbook collections of the majority of hanken artwork produced. Sailormoon did not.

I always thought promotional cels were more along the lines of lithos. Back in the days, though, they used to give out TV/movie cels as a promotion. Now, though, it's more common to give out clips from the film reel than promotional cels. It always amuses me when I see film clips on auction sites for 15,000 yen; Head to the Toei Museum and you can take as many as you want. At least when I went, the place was deserted and the old cel producing machines were tucked in a dark, damp corner lit by one hanging lightbulb. I kept expecting Doc from "Back to the Future" to jump out and show me where the DeLorean was hidden.
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kizu
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Post by kizu »

Thanks for your answers. At least then reading though this thread I can definitely say that hanken can have either xerox or ink lines. I was under the impression that all hanken have ink linesNow how about cels that were used in the anime and yet you see it used for merchandising? Are these hanken as well? Now I'm seeing some people call cel trace lines as "hanken", is that a little misleading?

As for test cels, has anyone seen sequence numbers on them? I'm trying to determine the difference between a test cel and a cel that was cut off from filming and cels that had errors and so were removed from filming... Geez I wonder what these things are all called. I too have no idea about storyboard, it was the first time I've heard some say storyboard cels. LOL.
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Post by graymouser »

I think most people would call a production cel that later gets used for merchandise a hanken cel. I would agree with this. I do have a few production cels that were later used this way. As a practical matter I have kept them in their respective sections instead of moving them to my hanken section since none of them were used for high profile items.

As for trace lines being called hankens. I think this would still be appropriate; function determining the type of cel. Since many newer shows are CG, the lines are all that remain of what would have been a hand painted cel in earlier years.

I am not sure, but I see it as a progression over time. Before the copy machine was invented and became commonplace, all cels had hand painted/inked lines regardless of use. As the copy machines became more prominent in the 1980s, most cel lines were xeroxed since it was a lot cheaper and faster to do it this way. Hankens where line quality was a lot more important were still hand inked for a lot longer. Eventually even hankens had copy lines though I heard that a higher quality of ink was used. Once CG took over and high quality images could be produced on the computer, hankens were reduced to lines only and then to sketch only.

I have no idea if test cels have sequence numbers on them. I do not own any. I do have a few cels and backgrounds that were originally made for shows, but were later edited out. I would refer to these as preproduction cels/backgrounds. All of these preproduction pieces are numbered just like my production artwork.

The four backgrounds from Mirage of Blaze of the bottom of this page are examples of incorrect backgrounds that were edited out.
http://itamejihada.net/backgrounds/mob/mob.tv13.5.html

This is a Last Unicorn background that was edited out.
http://itamejihada.net/backgrounds/lu/lu1c.html

This is a Last Unicorn cel that was later edited out.
http://itamejihada.net/cels/lu/lu2b.html

There are a few others in my gallery. Over the years I have also had others that have come and gone. I generally don't separate them out since I pretty much consider them as legitimate as other cels. If anything, I find them very interesting because they provide a window into how the show could have been.

Like I said before, I do not know if test cels have numbers or not. One thing I notice is that they tend to be nearly perfect shots of a character. They are well-centered and show the entire face/body. Sometimes they show the characters in different colored clothing since they are testing out different looks. For example I seem to remember that someone here has a test cel of Hinoto (X/1999) with purple eyes instead of red.
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Post by Olivier »

graymouser wrote:For example I seem to remember that someone here has a test cel of Hinoto (X/1999) with purple eyes instead of red.
I know this is an old topic but since I just purchased a cel of Hinoto I was searching on the forum for anything related to her and came accross your comment. The fact is Hinoto's eyes are red in the movie but definitely purple in the one cut that shows her in the XX music video. Her eyes in the test cel you saw in a rubberslug gallery were painted with the right color.
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