Princess Mononoke production cel with matching background

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » Sun May 22, 2011 4:42 pm

Contesting partially or totally those facts is simply defaming the company (and may encounter legal pursuits through complaints), we'd then appreciate to not follow on this way.

Iceman57 is serious when he starts making legal threats. He actually filed a complaint against me a few months ago and I was summoned to the police station in order to explain why I had written on a French cel forum that he was no cel expert - the fact is he is relatively new to cel collecting and his homemade COAs are not recognized by any serious cel collector whatsoever. This was harmless though : I simply explained it all to a police officer who believed me. Before I leave she said she was going to summon him to let him know what will happen to him if he files another fraudulent complaint.

I had been keeping this for myself for too long, it's good to let it go

Akai-san · Post by **Akai-san** » Sun May 22, 2011 4:48 pm

iceman57 wrote:Empty profile, 4 message on 5 from AKAI-SAN are to my attention, mostly defamatory and linking to auction house sales. This can be consider as being an extremely strange coincidence.

i am sorry, Iceman. Maybe you can let me know, when i am allowed to start speaking to you ? *lol*

Iceman, come on, we are in this together here! I asked you a legitimate question.

OK, i realize this is the only info you can provide, so i will draw my own conclusion from this...

But maybe you can answer these questions for me, so i can get a better picture?

Does your company work together with any Anime production studios ?
(maybe TOEI, since their european division is located in paris?)

Has anybody in your company worked in the animation industry?

thanks for your time!

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Sun May 22, 2011 6:42 pm

Iceman wrote:$7000 (OBO), all inclusive (express shipment, paypal fees or bank transfert costs, package insurance, certificate of authenticity).

Akai-san wrote:Who gave out the COA ?

Regards

Iceman wrote:Apparently refering on AKAI-SAN profile, this person with only 4 messages only focus on my posted messages. Would be appreciated to control this account and if it can not be consider as a multiple account in use for deliberate trolling.

WTF - really?? Its a $7000 cel! Not everyone carries
that much money around in their pocket. I'd say it is
a very legitimit question.

Oliver wrote:Iceman57 is serious when he starts making legal threats. He actually filed a complaint against me a few months ago and I was summoned to the police station in order to explain why I had written on a French cel forum that he was no cel expert

Are you serious?? Holy crap, I guess I should be thankful
that I haven't been hauled in and questioned by the police.
I question what a lot of people have to say, and make no
bones about it. That is just nuts!!

Post by **sensei** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:24 pm

Might I suggest that out of politeness this discussion could be handled through PMs between iceman and interested parties? It is, as gonzai notes, a significant price to pay, and when a series like Mononoke is already notorious for fakes, asking for provenence and other specific indicators of genuineness seems both prudent and appropriate. I'd assume that iceman, having seen his share of fakes, can surely point to these and satisfy potential buyers with some details that perhaps can't be shared in a public forum. That would clear the air and avoid the inevitable ad hominem direction that threads like these tend to take.

On that front: one of the interesting points that I learned from my ethnographic study (now undergoing academic refereeing) is the large number of people who visit regularly to watch for worthwhile sales like these but do not log in or make posts, or do so on very rare occasions. I'd say there is nothing at all out of line with Akai-san's posting record, and there was no need to imply otherwise.

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » Mon May 23, 2011 6:07 am

sensei wrote:Might I suggest that out of politeness this discussion could be handled through PMs between iceman and interested parties?

Nope, you can't.

@Iceman thanks for the mail and pm.
You will get a reply tonight after work.

Akai-san · Post by **Akai-san** » Wed May 25, 2011 3:41 am

@ iceman

no answer IS also an answer ?

hmm....

well, i am still patient...

lates

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Wed May 25, 2011 5:27 am

Pleasure, just ignore your froggy ass while answering per e-mail to real potential buyers.
I honestly have tons of more interesting things to work on this week such as framing artwork, testing acetate reaction to solvant with painting restorers, restoring 35mm films, working on exhibition project.

You consider that our garanties are not enough, come on, do you like to have DNA controls on artworks? This ain't CSI, but real life.
We do have the best existing garanties on art market: graduation on animation art study, accredited art market auction houses, insurances recognition and work with a network of established professionnals from art industry, film industry and museums conservators. We do also have company social values and arrange mecenate for kids from 12 to 16 (over 100 cels per year) and charity auctions. This is certainly a bit more evolved that just pressing the "bid" button on an item as you do for over a decade.

Honestly, there are not tons of froggy collectors with Ghibli cels and background artwork in their collection, even less like you that as a junkie freak ring people at their private home to preech their "true" vision of collection. Just don't hide behind dedicated account for bullying, that's a waste and a kiddy coward way of life.

All you apparently are willing to do in this thread is kind of lobbying with your froggies pal on my customer representation with this 7 message account. Inactive for a year and now willing answer the next day with daily connections.
This fact happens just 2 weeks before an auction in Paris auction house center where your pals have entries (what a coincidence!), exactly as you done last year at the same time for the same auction house event (two coincidence again, my goodness I've to play lottery) or when I had a digital attack (700$ loss thanks) a week before an auction I expertised on french riviera and that you'll certainly do again every year.

If this is more basically fear of a new market growing that you don't understand or master because this market is not following the japanese actual auction codes, you don't have to act such a kid, we do assist and offer professionnal service.
This new art market will make anime artists recognised and enter into museum in the coming 5 decades, and make collectors' collections valuable, just ask us about, advice is free of charge.
We'll be happy to recommand you the best strategy to manage and preserve your animation art investment, because buying is not all in art market.

Akai-san · Post by **Akai-san** » Wed May 25, 2011 10:01 am

@ iceman

well, first of all. I find it rather rude, how you attack me with acusations here, while i was pretty polite in asking you some relevant questions. I don't know what you are talking about , when you are saying: "...

Honestly, there are not tons of froggy collectors with Ghibli cels and background artwork in their collection, even less like you that as a junkie freak ring people at their private home to preech their "true" vision of collection. Just don't hide behind dedicated account for bullying, that's a waste and a kiddy coward way of life.
All you apparently are willing to do in this thread is kind of lobbying with your froggies pal on my customer representation with this 7 message account. Inactive for a year and now willing answer the next day with daily connections.
This fact happens just 2 weeks before an auction in Paris auction house center where your pals have entries (what a coincidence!), exactly as you done last year at the same time for the same auction house event (two coincidence again, my goodness I've to play lottery) or when I had a digital attack (700$ loss thanks) a week before an auction I expertised on french riviera and that you'll certainly do again every year...."

Do you think this is professional? I am a potential customer! You should watch, what you are saying!

You have been quick in answering here before, so i assumed you would do so again this time around. I told you also i am patient. ^_^

You are trying to represent a serious company, which claims to be on top of their game. I just want to verify these "facts" by asking questions. What is wrong with that ?

Also you are coming back on the auction house thingy from last year. My questions back then have also been relevant... but this time it's something else.

You see, i am collecting Ghibli art for a pretty long time now and from different movies. I do have contacts in japan-long time collectors, who tell me to be aware of Ghibli fakes, especially Mononoke Hime. Even pencil art is geting copied by chinese and korean artists to make lot's of money.(same thing with Gainax Evangelion cels) Manadarke has sold fakes before, prolly they did not know either!
So, i HAVE to have answers, before i consider a transaction, especially such an expensive one!

Again, please remember if you are a serious businessman, you should be professional, polite and helpful to collectors/future customers such as me.

The impression you are leaving is not exactly that.

regards

Gonzai · Post by **Gonzai** » Wed May 25, 2011 1:39 pm

iceman wrote:Pleasure, just ignore your froggy ass while answering per e-mail to real potential buyers.

iceman wrote:Honestly, there are not tons of froggy collectors with Ghibli cels and background artwork in their collection, even less like you that as a junkie freak ring people at their private home to preech their "true" vision of collection. Just don't hide behind dedicated account for bullying, that's a waste and a kiddy coward way of life.

iceman wrote:All you apparently are willing to do in this thread is kind of lobbying with your froggies pal on my customer representation with this 7 message account. Inactive for a year and now willing answer the next day with daily connections.

Are you serious??

You resort to name calling when someone
is asking you a legitimate question?

Why don't you just answer
his question instead of name calling. As I stated before, $7000
is a lot of money, and he asked a question that any serious
collector would ask.

I know very few people who are willing to just throw out $7000
for a cel unless they are 100% certain that it is not a fake. I
do know a few people who have that kind of money laying
around, and I am sure they have fake cels in their galleries.
you insulting instead of answering the question is completely
unprofessional, and it would keep me from buying anything
from you even if it were the real deal.

Now, with all that said, I suggest that everyone refrains from
anymore fighting in this post, or I will either lock it down or
send it to the Speakeasy where you all can beat the crap out
of each other all you want.

iceman57 · Post by **iceman57** » Wed May 25, 2011 2:06 pm

This account is a fake, created only for lobbying, just have a look on it more carefully and linked defaming message attributing sales that we didn't do. I do not have to answer or justify an official recognition on art market wich is effective for years to this person using forum registration tricks and multiple accounts as this is totally unfair and a non respect of any forum rules.

There is wroten on initial post "PM / E-mail for details" wich I consider to be clear enough and people asking for details get all the details they required. I do understand the people reserve for such a price, if they would like to have details they can write us anytime.

Simply lock this thread.

Akai-san · Post by **Akai-san** » Wed May 25, 2011 2:20 pm

my membership here is no "fake" or something like that.

It is unbelievable how rude you are. Actually you are defaming MY reputation here...!

BTW, you did not contact me privately here in any way. You also had the chance to do this, but you avoided me, or my interest.

Anyway, i think i go with Gonzai "...you insulting instead of answering the question is completely
unprofessional, and it would keep me from buying anything
from you even if it were the real deal..."

thank you very much for being NO help at all!

May others choose wisely!

...and yes, you can lock this thread, if you wish to.

Joost · Post by **Joost** » Wed May 25, 2011 3:50 pm

I don't understand you guys.... If you are really interested in buying or want more info, just PM each other...

No need for this back and forward game.

I think you're both a bit in the wrong here.

teggacat · Post by **teggacat** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:02 pm

Joost wrote:I don't understand you guys.... If you are really interested in buying or want more info, just PM each other...

No need for this back and forward game.

I think you're both a bit in the wrong here.

okay, a valid point Joost, the way I see it one party comes across with a shread of respect, the other party is just downright rude.
Personally I vote for Gonzai!!!

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:12 pm

teggacat wrote:Personally I vote for Gonzai!!!

1 more for Gonzai!!!

dude_moose · Post by **dude_moose** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:20 pm

I'm going to lock this thread.

I do not have to answer or justify an official recognition on art market wich is effective for years to this person using forum registration tricks and multiple accounts as this is totally unfair and a non respect of any forum rules.

For future reference iceman, our Rules and Guidelines do not prohibit legitimate questions concerning items for sale. They DO prohibit inflammatory use of language and flame wars. Calling someone a "froggy ass," making baseless accusations about an account's legitimacy, and threatening legal action in the course of a conversation can be considered flaming. No need to get so worked up.

Please direct any more questions about this item to iceman via PM.