Revised Draft of AB Ethnography Now Available

Post by **sensei** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:22 am

No hurry. The essay will be around long after Anime-Beta and the technology that powers it will be dusty artifacts of the past. And it isn't even scheduled for publication until "Fall 2012" (which, in my experience, means "Spring 2013").

The long-defunct forum where I hung out before I went to Animanga now has actually inspired a "Remember when" nostalgia group on Facebook. (Amazingly, I still have copies of most of the fanfics I wrote, including the "missing episode" of CCS where Sakura teams up with Satan to defeat Madison Taylor, Eli Moon, and the other obnoxious body doubles from the English dub.)

Feel free to send comments by PM, especially ones expressing dissent from my conclusions and/or pointing out egregious errors of syntax and factuality. At this point, every criticism is a help.

Deadly Whispers · Post by **Deadly Whispers** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:45 pm

Absolutely fascinating, sensei.

I just finished reading; it took a long time, even though I'm a fast reader, but I took it slow so I could actually absorb what you were saying. I'm impressed at the data you gathered, the research you performed, and the way it all tied together in the end. I truly enjoyed reading the quoted input from members and the context you gave it (since I obviously couldn't read their PMs). I also liked having that mean-snicker over the obviously wrong point of view of the DÃ©gh-lady, hee (I think that was how her name was spelled).

Thanks so much for sharing all of that incredible work with us! Thanks for helping to immortalize Beta, too.

~ DW

dark-water-dragon · Post by **dark-water-dragon** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:11 pm

I just want to congratulate you on your outstanding achievement and dedication to this project. It is nice to read about many of my fellow beta family in one place instead of topic after topic after topic (I do enjoy that as well)

. The next step in this for me would be to understand why people decide to leave the hobby. Great job again Sensei.

Post by **sensei** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:53 pm

[PM + thanks to DW]

DWD, thanks for being bold enough to read through. I agree that the threads are as intriguing as the summary narrative, which was one reason why my trawls for data through old threads often led to hours of fun but unproductive browsing. But for an audience unfamiliar with anime and anime art, some simpler path had to be cut through the data.

And I'd initially planned to try to get some surveys out to some once-active but now absent members. That would be worth doing. But with my editor already worried that I might have submitted two essays rather than the one commissioned, I think that that would have been an analytical bridge too far.

Waiting for comments from my editor ...

Quacker · Post by **Quacker** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:14 pm

Wow!! Congratulations upon a thoroughly engaging, articulate & well-researched piece. And this is 'only' the first-round draft, so enviably your Article will only get better & more refined with each passing draft.
I take my hat off to you once again Sir. Cannot wait for the final draft to be released!

Post by **sensei** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:58 am

Thanks, Quacker, though I have to admit that the quality of an academic piece relies entirely on the quality of its data.

In this case I was initially a little intimidated by the surveys I got back from members, new and old. They were thoughtful, detailed, passionate: I wish I could have used more from them. So to a large extent I'm trying to give a faithful account of what Betarians are saying and feeling, and when this is interesting and well expressed, my job is that much easier.

If AB were boring and neat-freaky, I'd have to use that much more creativity in putting together a readable essay on the topic. But then I probably wouldn't hang out there, and there probably wouldn't be an AB. But the topic would make one heck of an impressive postmodern essay.
(I'm itchy-twitchy to use the term "abjection" in one of these articles some day, ideally modified by "contrahegemonic.")

Sui Kune · Post by **Sui Kune** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:09 pm

That was an amazing read, and really taught me a lot. It's even gotten me thinking about my type of collecting; I admit I'm a little worried as to whether anyone thinks I might be a "hoarder". I'm also admittedly a little intimidated by most Betarians being older and in a later, more secure stage of life than I am, where I'd like to be, but I know the only reason why I'm not in school (I hope to become a doctor) is because of debilitating illness. Some people are just late-bloomers, right?

I'm really really excited to see the final draft. I'm always thirsty to learn more and more about artwork and collecting, and this is exactly what I've been craving. You've done an amazing job so far, and thank you for all the effort.

Post by **sensei** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:40 pm

Thank you for your comments, Sui Kune. I've gotten a note from my editor, who says he'll be sending detailed comments in a week or two. He likes it, but the length is a problem, and so we will probably be looking for ways to streamline it.

Sui Kune wrote: I admit I'm a little worried as to whether anyone thinks I might be a "hoarder".

Personally, I think relatively new collectors are expected to go after their dreams and build galleries. If I insisted on getting every really good CCS or TnN cel that comes up, I think I could be accused of "hoarding." But in my experience there comes a point of satiation, a sense that I have attained the collection of a given series that I originally wanted. Then increasingly I ask whether I really need one more CCS or TnN cel. The nice thing is that there are other collectable series, and being part of a group like this lets you find out about these just as your interest in one area begins to wane.

I'm also admittedly a little intimidated by most Betarians being older and in a later, more secure stage of life than I am, where I'd like to be. Some people are just late-bloomers, right?

Ganbatte, Sui Kune. I think probably the loss of most of my hearing in a series of nasty illnesses in 1999 was pivotal in my getting interested in anime. (Being in a foreign language, and subtitled, they are actually more accessible to me than movies in English without captioning.) Age doesn't matter, so long as you keep your inner adolescent well exercised and properly entertained.

cutiebunny · Post by **cutiebunny** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:58 pm

Interesting read. I never bothered to sit down and think about the reasons as to why I collect what I do and what that says about me. I guess I never really cared as to what it said - since when do I turn to others to define myself?

But...what I thought was interesting was the part where you mentioned that people come to Beta because they feel comfortable when surrounded by others who share their same interests. I think that, if people opened themselves up more and were willing to take the risk of being (possibly) ridiculed, they'd find that there's a lot more people out there that are just like them.

Case in point...I'm now a supervisor at work. My personality, especially at work, is that I have no problem making fun of myself if it'll make someone else smile. Today, one of my coworkers mentioned that he went to Wondercon (convention geared towards US comic book fans) this weekend. I mentioned to him that I thought that was pretty spiffy and that I enjoy going to anime conventions. That sparked a conversation between us and we talked about collecting comic related stuff. But, if he didn't take the first step by saying he attended a convention, we probably would have never discussed it.

Sui Kune - everyone, to a certain extent, is a hoarder. I collect artwork from certain episodes of anime and right now, I'm buying all the artwork I can from another title. Does that make me a hoarder? Yup. But, what's the alternative? I know what will happen if I don't buy the artwork from the seller who lists the auctions - the artwork will linger in his folders and, perhaps, end up in a bag for recyclable paper Tuesdays. But, truthfully speaking, I don't care what other people think about me or my collection. If what I collect bothers others, they're more than welcome to not view my collection.

rosesleep · Post by **rosesleep** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:14 pm

This is truly an engaging read. I am relatively a "newbie" in this hobby and this article made me appreciate this community a lot more! ^^ I learned some interesting terms such as "black hole collector" and "hoarder" O.o;;

Post by **sensei** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:56 am

I agree with CB: "hoarding" isn't about how many items of a given series or character you have. It's a moral issue, as I tried to get across at one point. It's about how you treat your collection and other collectors. Perhaps I'm wrong (and often is, my wife likes to add at this point) but I don't think this forum attracts people whom I'd call hoarders. It really is all about talking to each other and sharing information. Like who's interested in what on the BWA. I can't imagine a true hoarder tolerating a discussion like that for long.

As CB says, a lot of excellent material is still looking for bids. And I'd guess that quite a bit of the material that's already come into collectors' hands is being stored inappropriately and is quietly deteriorating. (One sniff inside a newly acquired sketch set bag often tells the story: Japanese mildew ... or cigarette smoke.)

In such a situation, why should we be sullen if another Beta member has a cel or sketch we'd like to have? We have reason to believe it's being cared for well ... and might get passed along some day.

With the people you might legitimately call "hoarders" or "black hole collectors," you just don't know. That's why non-hoarders and non-BHCs are worth celebrating.

That said, I agree with Nene and others in the original thread that these terms should not be used loosely to stereotype specific collectors. There are lots of valid reasons for choosing not to have a public anime art gallery that could be visited by the general public, e.g., by one's boss or spouse.

Honestly, honey, I just collect Usagi-chan de Cue cels because I think the plot is clever!

Sui Kune · Post by **Sui Kune** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:37 pm

Oh yeah, don't worry, I understood the definition of "hoarder" from your article, I just can be overly paranoid sometimes. XD I'm also always afraid of stepping on peoples' toes without knowing it, I'm never aggressive enough to ever step on people to get what I want but I still don't want to unknowingly offend someone.

And oh god yes, Cutiebunny you brought up a very excellent point. When I sent my stuck artwork off to SR Labs, Ron told me about the horrors of Japanese mildew and how he's seen some terrible things from either neglect or even just the hurry of production. (15-pound stacks of cels anyone?) While most of what I've bought were already in good homes, I still want to make sure that every piece ends up with the best care possible, hence why I sent off all my stuck cels. I've also seen some awful things even just on auction; for instance, a Pokemon hanken on Mandarake that I'm convinced had specks of mold on it. A close friend also has an amazing storybook Pokemon hanken that has, bizarrely enough, SMEARING of the trace lines. She was pretty horrified when she received it and saw that smearing, so she sent it off to get corrected, along with getting a correction layer for another cel with trace lines that are getting harder to see.

Also, to tell the truth, black hole collectors make me sadder than hoarding collectors. While I do understand the reasons behind it (either paranoia, a seller's request, or even Japanese copyright law), I've still seen some amazing pieces come and go that I wish I could see again. I even saw an A1End flashback young Hotaru cel of her telling her father to hurry up, with original matching background, disappear. Maybe one day these cels will pop up again, but I feel a lot better letting things go when I can visit them anytime I want in a public gallery, either on Rubberslug or a personal site. I've also learned to save any cel I have to let go in a "cels that got away" folder.

Also, thank you for your kind words Sensei. You're right, age is only a number, I know I'll more than make up for lost time too once I can get well enough to get my life on track.

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:23 pm

Sensei great work.

It takes some time so the first read was only roughly since i haven't time yet to read it completely. -.-

Post by **sensei** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:29 pm

There is no rush. The essay is only in its first stage of revision, and will not go to the press until later this year. Print research is very, very slow moving because it's designed to outlast the now-focused communication technology.

Comments (especially critical ones) can come by PM if people wish.

Post by **sensei** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:49 pm

http://www.sendspace.com/file/j0wnap

My long-suffering editor sent me back a version with well over a hundred queries and suggestions, which included some (not unexpected) recommendations for healthy cuts. As a result, the essay has gone from around 53 pages to under 40 (the recommended limit), and has a healthier section at the beginning on folkloristic theory. This can be accessed at the link above (watch out for blinky ads!) The conclusions are the same, but I think it is a leaner, more lucid argument that has lost many of its little quirky tangents and side-trips into marginally related matters.

The saddest omission was the section dealing with the Annual AB Awards and the "Something Fun" thread, both of which I thought were enjoyable to discuss and helped me understand something of the game-like or festive-like qualities of both activities. However, the editor feels that there may well be a place to publish a shorter note on this issue elsewhere.

The essay will now go to readers, and then based on these the Press (Utah State) will make a decision on whether to publish and, if so, what further revisions are called for. The editor, having done a previous collection with the press that has been well received, is optimistic that this process will go well and that by fall we may already be moving ahead toward publication.

My thanks again to all who encouraged and my sincere apologies for all whose quotes got left on the cutting room floor in this version of the essay. Be assured that the ideas you expressed remain vital in the conclusions it reached.

Anime-Beta TNG

Revised Draft of AB Ethnography Now Available

Re: Revised Draft of AB Ethnography Now Available