Phew, I think it's time to quit

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sletia
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Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sletia »

I did something really stupid last night. I bid way too high on http://www.rinkya.com/new/en/auction-b131756258 . I couldn't sleep last night, realizing I would have to borrow money from my family if I won. With Rinkya fees and all it would have easily been $1,100. What was I THINKING? I had enough money for it if I won, but not for ANYTHING else (gas, bills, etc.)
Thankfully I've been saved by the Xel. (I think, haha, or it could be LinaLON or someone else entirely. Whoever you are, thank you for saving my dumb butt.)
This was a sobering experience for me. My zeal for this character bypasses my rational thinking. I can't realistically spend so much on cels if I ever want to get my debts paid off and cleared. It's time to grow the hell up.
So, I'm backing off from the cel game entirely.
I'm unsure what to do with my collection. I'm thinking of keeping some, but not all. I obviously have some major favourites, but it's time to share the love. My cels are all in a huge storage container and I can't realistically keep them all. It's too much and they're not getting the attention they deserve! (Only the Phibrizzo cels are in an actual cel book, everything else is in that container). I'll probably throw a lot of it on ebay.
So spread the news, my gallery is going, going, gone! If there's something you've been eying, go for it. Ask away, throw me an offer. I realize the circumstances of the world these days and won't be asking for what I paid in most cases if it was astronomically high (as we all know cels were a lot more expensive before the economy tanked.)
The slate is clean, if I quoted you a price on something before, or said "No I can't give it up," disregard that. I'm in a new frame of mind. :)
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by cutiebunny »

As someone who has "been there/done that", I can't help but wonder if your post was done out of frustration for an impulsive bid rather than after a serious reflection.

I think you should take some time and think about implications of selling your collection. I can understand if you need the funds or you don't care about the items as much as you once did, but to sell something you really love simply because you made the same mistake that many of us have made in the past seems a bit extreme to me.

I think it's completely normal to want to sell parts of your collection after bidding on items like this, even if you don't win. I won a shikishi a couple months ago that set me back a bit, and I did rummage through my collection wondering what I should cull. Sometimes I find myself wanting to sell items out of guilt for spending so much on the hobby, and other times, I want to sell simply to make what collection I do have that much more special to me.

I know that when I try to look at it from a practical standpoint (usually whenever I'm about to hit the 'Send Money' button on the Paypal account) , I get frustrated at myself for spending money on pieces of paper and plastic. But if I didn't love the artwork, I wouldn't have cast that bid. So in the end, although I get grumpy over what I spent, I can't see myself wanting to stop collecting or sell my collection because of it.

I won't try to change your decision, but I hope you give it more than a moment's thought. :)
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sletia
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sletia »

Thank you for your thoughts, cutie. :)
It's something I've been thinking about for a while. I DEFINITELY have way too many cels right now. When I imagine my collection gone, the only pang I feel is for a few pieces. I would REALLY feel a loss for some* of my Phib collection, it took a lot of sweat, tears and money to build it. However, the rest... I could let go of almost all (if not all) of the other series. I don't have room for them, either. :/

*Yup, you read right, some, not all! I think I can even cut my Phib collection in at least half!
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by Thanatos »

Well, I have to say that seeing my own situation, I read your post with much interest :).

I have only recently began cel collecting, but I have still realized that at certain moments, this hobby can become quite addicting and dangerous.
Disposing of a quite limited income and having other fees, I had sometimes to make choices, and I find it very interesting to have an evidence from another person. This kind of errors, I hope I will be able to avoid them as well.

Thanks for your message, it reminded me to not drop my guard. Good thing your mistake wasn't one finally, and seeing you seem to be decided, good luck with your sales :).
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sletia
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sletia »

Beware the "rush" you get while buying cels, as well. I think it contributed to some of my purchases. /swt
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by Thanatos »

Well, limited amounts of money have at least this advantage that they don't allow you to rush on every cel that passes before your eyes X|.
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sletia »

I should have said this earlier... but I want to apologize, as well, for anyone I may have offended in the past. I have done a lot of growing up lately and I'm sorry.
I'm not selling so much as to make a ton of money, but to return to the market many cels that are not getting the love they deserve. I'm not desperate for funds nor will I be upset if no one bites. (Though one already has, thank you :)) I just hope that by doing this I am giving everyone a chance at cels they may want more than me.
:cheers
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sensei »

Having an anime art collection can be a big responsibility. I spend every Lent doing basic maintenance, and while I don't yet have the complete catalog of my holdings, each review leaves the collection better organized and more permanently maintained. A lot of "deferred maintenance" got done this year, especially stuff that needed tape removal, which needs to be done carefully and a few items at a time.

Sletia, as I read your confession, that's the thing that bothers you the most, and I think you've made a painful but reasonable decision. Cels especially are demanding of care because they are chemically active. I'd not want to feel that I'd permanently damaged unique objects like these because I'd enjoyed the rush of obtaining them, and then left them to deteriorate in a storage container. I'd hope that more collectors think about this issue, and, if they can't be sure that they have the time and skills to maintain their possessions, they return them to the market.

That could the answer to Strictly Dragonball's issue of the market "drying up." Yes, the Japanside supply of good material entering the market through jobbers has virtually come to a halt. But I'm finding that lack made up by the greater willingness of long-term collectors to consider private offers for items they got when the market was flush. This "second time around" market will, as with many forms of collectables, be a major source for collectors for a long time.

But, yes, the moment you start valuing an item that you don't have or one that you just won more than a cel or sketch of comparable quality that you've had for more than a year, that's the time when all of us need to stop and critically reexamine what it is that we are doing.
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sletia
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sletia »

Sensei, you hit the nail on the head. I cannot realistically care for the mass volume of cels and sketches that I have. They are only going to deteriorate in my care, all stored away in a dark box. I want to save them and give them to people who truly know what to do to maintain their survival. People who really want them, and have an attachment to them. People who will appreciate them. I treasure my Phib cels and that's why I saved them and put them in the binder, but the rest I'll have to sell. There's a few non-Phib cels I'm keeping but I need to make the pile a LOT more manageable before I can care for them properly.
Honestly I'd love to frame them but I have no idea how to do that properly.
That said, they're all in cel bags, of course, and kept away from anything that would make the paint stick, but that's about it.
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by pixie_princess »

Caring for cels only gets to be more daunting of a task with each new cel added to the mix. Once you start factoring in sketch sequences it becomes even harder. This has been a problem my husband and I have been considering for a long while and we have already started to take steps to do more than the standard bagged cels and portfolio storage option. Don't get me wrong as this is better than doing nothing at all. However I want to do everything I can to at least make sure that these cels stay in as decent condition as I received them, so that I can pass them into my children's custody in the far off future and have them feel confident that they are doing all that they can to preserve them.

As much as I know it must have been hard to come to the decision to part with these cels, I am glad that you can find solace in the fact that they will all be well taken care of. It is a big decision after all. I am glad to know that you are still keeping a good chunk of your Phibrizzo cels.

As for framing, even with all the precautions being taken you still run the risk of sever damage in the form of rapidly fading tracelines... It just depends on what you want to do with the cels.

You would want UV acrylic (when glass breaks it would scratch the cel up to heck and back), and archival safe framing supplies. You would want to tell any framer you take it to that you do not want the cel trimmed, and instead would prefer it to be in a larger frame so that the window mat would do the centering for you instead of cutting the cel to fit. You would not want it spray mounted. You would want to have separate window mats in between each layer (if they are separate currently). There are clear archival safe corners that are used to hold photographs in scrap books -that might be a good idea as you would not be putting anything sticky onto the cel. It might also be a good idea to use micro chamber board in the back behind the bottom layer of the cel to help mitigate some of the issues that might pop up with the cel being in such an enclosed area.
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by Drac of the Sharp Smiles »

You know what I would love, Sensei, I would love to see a checklist of the maintenance things you do for your cels. I also have a HUGE collection that I've got very carefully STORED.... but, other than viewing, I don't actually DO much to them.

To give one example, I've heard of people who spend a lot of time changing cel bags, but most of my cels have remained in the cel bags I chose for them when I first aquired and scanned them.... and for many that haven't been opened in years, they're pristine. Exactly as they were when I aquired them, including one cel of Clary with his bright yellow hair that is so murderous to cel lines. (It has been sealed for over seven years and remains perfect.) Moreover, while most of my Clary cels have shown *some* line deterioration in his hair that I seem incapable to stop, the one and only cel of him that has been opened three times while in my possession is the one that has shown the WORST deterioration. So I'm left scratching my head if it's better to change bags and expose them to air (even if only on low-humidity days) or just leave them sealed, as long as the bag is undamaged.

I also do frequently "spot-check" a couple things here and there.... occasionally comparing a few cels to their original scans, to look for deterioration that may have occured while they're in my possession. However, I admit I haven't come up with an organized checking process for doing so. (I do have my entire collection scanned and make sure to scan things as they come in so the file creation dates match when I got the cel.) I'm sure there are some that haven't been compared to their original scans in years. The last time I went through the whole collection, piece by piece, in front of my computer was just to check that they all WERE scanned, not really to closely examine the scans.... and that took WEEKS.

On the same token, selling off my collection because it's large is not something I feel is a necessity. For me, while there is a rush of aquisition, the love isn't only for the aqusition. Even when I know where I'm going to put a new piece, booking any new cel or sketch takes HOURS while I get caught up in all the ones already there all over again. (My husband just stares at me in confusion when he walks in to find the master bed COVERED in Itoyas with me in the middle after I told him I had to put ONE cel away. ^_^) The only thing that prevents me from opening my cel books more often is that, when I do, it seems I blink and four hours are gone. ^_^ So I would really welcome thoughts on what I, as just one person, can best do to preserve a large collection and do so efficiently. I do definitely consider myself a caretaker more than an owner, per se, but I don't know if I do it really WELL. Even after all this time, I can check if anything is going wrong but don't feel like I know what to DO about it, if something does go wrong.

Also, now that there are many sketches in my collection, I really need to learn how to remove tape, but admit I am TERRIFIED to try it. Probably the worst thing that has happened to a few pieces in my collection are tape-burns on sketches (some from prior to my aquiring the piece and, sadly, some from after) and it makes me crazy. I know there's nothing that can be done about the burn after it's happened... that it's all about prevention. So this is one place I need to definitely do something. If I felt confident about removing the tape, time wouldn't stop me from treating the whole collection. I only haven't out of fear of doing worse damage. (*sigh*)

Still, all that said, I'm not a believer in "I'm not a perfect owner, so it should go to someone else because they'll care for it better". The reality is that it will probably go to someone JUST LIKE YOU or very similar to you and there's no reason that "someone" will definitely be a better caretaker than you in some way. For all you know, they'll leave it out on their desk in the sun for a couple days before remembering to put it away. I'm not a perfect cel owner, but I'm not daft at it and, either way, my collection is stuck with me for now. ^_^
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by star-phoenix »

sletia, I agree pretty much with what everyone else said. And frankly, most of us has placed ourselves in the same/similar situation as you were in. I, for one, am no different. Comes with the "hobby" (or how the psychiatrists put it, the addiction). With time, you will learn to control it. And if it is hard, marry a person who is so overly stingy with money, he makes you feel guilty about your spending habits to the point where you have to sit and reconsider a billion times before ever buying a cel!!!! :-P

I don't have a very big cel collection (quantity-wise). But, majority of the cels I have, I put in a lot of investment in archival framing and preservation, especially with my vintage pieces. I think it is definitely worth the investment in the long run. For the others, I place them all in acid free Itoya folders wrapped in acid free cel bags, that are generally changed out every so often. So, apart from the framing costs, the archival storage really do not cost too much $$.
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by zerospace »

I kinda have to say I'm 100% in agreement with Drac.

I should add that my own selling is geared mostly to bring my collection and my husband's collection in line with something we both love and can care well for (the size of our collection had gotten to the point where I felt like I couldn't adequately care for everything). :hurt:

I also have to add that after being in this hobby for about 10 years, my love for most of my cels has not diminished (when I feel that it has, I usually sell them) while my rabid desire to obtain new cels has, in fact, decreased immensely. There are very few things that I seek anymore, and when I do find them, I get that same wonderful rush as I always did. I still check YJ and Mandarake regularly, but I maybe will win an auction a month, if any at all. My latest shipment from my deputy service has been building since last November (and in the end, consisted of 10 auctions' worth of items -- most of which came from a single seller).
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Re: Phew, I think it's time to quit

Post by sensei »

Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote:You know what I would love, Sensei, I would love to see a checklist of the maintenance things you do for your cels. I also have a HUGE collection that I've got very carefully STORED.... but, other than viewing, I don't actually DO much to them.
Sorry if I made it sound as if I had a huge list of tasks. I'd say lately most of the patient work has been with my sketch collection. There I'm:

1. Making a complete "finding list" of what I own. I realized at the end of last year that there were nice sketches that I had which I'd completely misplaced. I knew which room they were in, but I couldn't put my hands on them. (My art boards for Mushishi were the hardest to find, which I finally did last week.) So mostly I'm going through boxes, organizing and recording their contents. While doing so I'm

2. Adding acid-free cardstock backing boards to the sketch bags so the sketches don't bend or dog-ear. I'm separating the sketches on white paper from those on colored paper (higher acid content) and adding MicroChamber paper to the bags. This will, I'm told, help hold back the process by which paper becomes brittle and yellowed.

For cels I regularly give cel books "the sniff test." The plasticizer that pastes trace lines onto acetate has a distinctive smell, and if I get a big whiff of that, I consider the cels healthy. In any case, like your experience, I have not been able to see any visible deterioration, except for the one cel that I framed and hung in my office for about nine months, which faded dramatically in places where there was brown/orange paint. Since being removed from the frame and returned to a cel book, it has remained stable at that condition for ten years.

I give all new cels a new cel bag. When I see that this cel bag is seriously puckered, I change it. I don't have a set schedule for this: probably every 3-5 years. I've heard that some curators change bags every six months, but this seems unnecessary, since I haven't seen any sign of deterioration under my regimen.

For many years I just tucked the douga behind the cel in its plastic bag. Now I'm gradually locating these sketches and giving them bags of their own. (When I change the cel bags, I give the old bag to the douga.)
Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote:Even after all this time, I can check if anything is going wrong but don't feel like I know what to DO about it, if something does go wrong.
That's difficult to answer. When a cel fails "the sniff test" by smelling like vinegar, it really needs special treatment. But as I understand that condition cannot be reversed or arrested. I isolate such cels and layer them with MicroChamber paper. In minor cases, that seems to be an short term solution as it eliminates the smell. (It also works for cels with that Japanese mildew smell, or second-hand smoke.) But I have a Blue Bird set up that is now on its second set of MicroChamber layers and may be irretrievably damaged. That one is stored "in isolation" away from other cels as the fumes can cause damage to the plastic on healthy cels.

Thankfully, this problem seems to be the exception rather than the rule, so I think climate control, upright storage, and exclusion of light are adequate except for items that have been abused before they came into my hands. (Heat + high humidity seem to be the trigger for "vinegar syndrome.")
Drac of the Sharp Smiles wrote:Also, now that there are many sketches in my collection, I really need to learn how to remove tape, but admit I am TERRIFIED to try it.
The tutorial that I put up on Beta on how to do this is here. Caution is a good thing to bring to the task, as I like to say "Primum non nocere," or "Above all, don't do anything that might hurt the sketch." But if you start with the minor sketches and see how it goes, then after a few practices you can, little by little, move to the more cherished and expensive ones. It's not a job that should be done quickly or hastily, but I find that the patient physical tasks that go into it are good therapy after a stint of hard mental work (e.g., grading term papers or writing multiple-choice tests for forensic anthropology (CGI) textbooks).

I could also put my PowerPoint tutorial on tape removal that I gave at AnimeNext a few years ago up on a download site if you'd like. PM me if you are interested.

Overall, it's a big responsibility, but, as with your involvement with your collection, it's hard to say where maintenance work trails off into looking at cels or sketches that I loved when I got them and still love a lot. I could say that working through one big box of sketches took ten days. But that wasn't ten days of back-breaking, tedious labor. It was all spare moments when I was avoiding doing other jobs and getting out all the sketches in especially loved series and really looking at them, face to face, rather than just by way of the scans I originally made. Sometimes I find myself making new scans, because the actual sketches have so much more presence than the icky scans I made in the 2002-06 era when my collection was growing most rapidly.

But, yes, my massive collecting days are gone. Not that the interest and love have diminished -- but like many collectors I've found that I have the collection that I once dreamed of having. And so it takes more and more to make me push that "bid" button and add one more cel or sketch.
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