Trying to differentiate types of gengas

[Jarmel]

So I have a sketch on yellowish colored paper that I'm trying to figure out whether it's hand-drawn or machine-like(similar to a douga I guess). I can't really inspect it at the moment due to being physically away from it and it's at the framers. I know that there are elements that are hand-drawn as it's a correction genga but I'm wondering if the rest is machine-produced similar to a douga. In short, are there correction gengas where the base image is produced via machine and the correction is hand-drawn or are gengas usually hand-drawn completely? Thanks.

[Kasi]

By "machine-like" do you mean physically created by a machine ie. a photo copy or the asthetic of the drawing ie. traced, methodical /not free styled sketch work?

I've never heard of any genga, corrections or douga being created by machine, unless it's a copy.

[Jarmel]

By "machine-like" do you mean physically created by a machine ie. a photo copy or the asthetic of the drawing ie. traced, methodical /not free styled sketch work?

I've never heard of any genga, corrections or douga being created by machine, unless it's a copy.

Well it looks like I misunderstood what a douga is then, as I thought it was done via computer. So going with the assumption then, that would mean that all gengas are completely hand-drawn.

I should also clarify that I'm talking about a digital production and not a cel-based one.

[Kasi]

Well the good news is they are all hand-drawn Douga is just traced from the genga drawings, in comparison to Western animation terms, genga=rough animation, douga=clean-up (and later scanned to be digitally coloured). I'll agree they can look digitally produced because the line work is very crisp and precise.

[Jarmel]

Thank you for your help. So I've been reading through this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=28815

So since they're all hand-drawn, how do you separate shuusei genga from roughs? Also is using paper-color, a solid indicator to tell if something is a douga or not? Like if the paper is white then chances are it is a douga and if the paper is yellowish then chances are it's a genga?

[sensei]

There are several threads on this, so I won't try to summarize them all, but the gist is this:

There are typically five stages that a "cut" or series of images go through in animation:

1. Layout - usually done on stock printed forms with the studio's name and a place for episode number, cut number, etc. on the top.

2. Rough or Layout Correction (I've seen both terms in auction descriptions) - usually done on thin colored paper. These are normally done by the episode's animation director and are complete images. Usually they do not have the layer numbers (like A1, B2, etc.) but are numbered just 1, 2, 3, etc.

3. Genga or "Foundation Sketch" - done on thicker white paper by the key animators working under the animation director's supervision. They only cover the important moments of the cut, typically the start, end, and extreme positions in between. You can usually identify them because the layer numbers are written directly beside the characters.

4. Shuusei or "Correction/Revision Sketch" - done on thin colored paper. These are also typically done by the animation director and usually are just simple details such as the contour of a character's chin or details in the eyes. But some directors are more fussy and work up these corrections into complete or nearly complete images. Best guide is the way it's labeled: shuusei's will have the layer number (A1, B2, etc.) and usually be marked "shuusei" (修).

5. Douga or "Animating Sketch" - done by a junior animator (and often outsourced by the studio to another concern) on thicker white paper with the sequence number tucked way up in the upper right corner (for oversized douga, in the lower left corner). Otherwise the sketch will be very crisp in appearance and have no other notes because it's being photocopied on the back of the cel or scanned to be colorized. [But I have seen some douga with annotations in a broad colored pencil, probably done by a checker who's flagging errors by the cel painter.]

Good luck: it can be a little more complicated than that, depending on a studio's or even an animation director's personal preference. If you have the whole sketch set, it can be educational to put sketches for the same moment side by side or layer them and hold them up to light so you can see the differences among them. If you can get a screen grab of the moment from the published version, you can watch how the studio worked up the image little by little, sometimes starting with something radically different from what finally appears in th show.

[Jarmel]

4. Shuusei or "Correction/Revision Sketch" - done on thin colored paper. These are also typically done by the animation director and usually are just simple details such as the contour of a character's chin or details in the eyes. But some directors are more fussy and work up these corrections into complete or nearly complete images. Best guide is the way it's labeled: shuusei's will have the layer number (A1, B2, etc.) and usually be marked "shuusei" (修).

Again, I really appreciate the help. So mainly in regards to shuusei, is most of the work done by a key animator then the animation director goes over and edits the sketch? Or are shuusei usually done entirely by the animation director?

[sensei]

No, the key animator (or "gengaman" in Japanese terminology, even if she is female) does the genga, and then the animation director looks it over and does the needful corrections. Then they both get shipped downstairs (or off to Korea) to be turned into douga and strung together with inbetweeners.

Good resource in English by someone who actually worked for an animation studio for a while:

Jan Scott Frazier's "Various Positions in the Anime Industry"

This "Rosetta Stone" resource was my gateway to really understanding how this sketch process worked. She calls the artist who corrects sketches an "Animation Supervisor" but at Anime News Network's Encyclopedia and most other places this title (sakuga kantoku or sakkan) is translated "Animation Director."

[Jarmel]

Thank you for the source. Two quick questions remaining then. What is the difference between having the layer number completely circled compared to having only the number part of the layer number circled? For example A is not circled but 1 is. Also what does it mean if there is no number at all? I saw some sketches done on pink paper but there is no layer number.

[sensei]

On roughs, and shuuseis, probably none. They're usually circled on genga, that's just convention, and I've seen some gengas where there's no circle.

And a lot of times you get practice sketches on colored paper. They are sometimes called "genzu" but even that word just means some kind of a "mapping-out sketch." A lot of times they are on different-colored paper (usually pink) so they don't get confused with the roughs and shuusei. They could be anything, mostly just chatter among the animators. "I think it would be more effective to put a big sweat-drop in -- like maybe this way [egg-shape with scribbly sweat-drop]."

This may be a anime art collectors' urban legend, but I recall a story where some sketch had a long note that the owner finally took to someone who knew Japanese to translate. It turned out to be a list of what everyone wanted from the Chinese take-away.

In any case, the only time that a circled sequence number means something is in the corner of a douga, where it means that this image was traced directly from one of the key animator's drawings. So the corresponding cel is, logically enough, a "key" cel.

Thanks for asking. Truth to tell, the more sketches and sketch sets you handle, the more this will become intuitive to you, as you'll be able to see how the studio process normally works.

[Jet]

Appreciated reading this topic, thanks for the information.

To hopefully not derail too far, does the fact that genga are more commonly drawn by key animators and douga done by juniors tend to make genga more collectable, or not necessarily? I never realized, before reading this thread, that douga were done by more junior animators and/or outsourced.