What bothers you about this hobby?

[Startyde]

It pains me that the hobby is all but dead as a dying star, flickering in and out of sight. The side effect of this, more than ever, is that many who have such wonderful pieces of art cease to talk about or acknowledge them again publicly.

Outside of the maybe 5-10 percent of collectors who have an online gallery, tens of thousands of grand setups are locked away over the globe, never see see the light again. If the hobby were more healthy, more communities and common groups could spring up and keep the health flow of sharing and trading alive. I've heard so many stories of setups seen at cons in the early to mid 90's, never to be seen again. I myself have never seen the majority of cells lost on eBay or YHJ in the early 2000's. Surely they will be for sale later I thought, but literally never seen again anywhere. Where did they go, who has them I still wonder?

Cell collecting is an incestuous and a stagnant pool in its current form, and everyone who remembers the heyday of the few decades laments the current state of events. Cel collectors have always been an interesting group, the most interesting among the the hobbies I'm a part of. They're very passionate, very knowledgeable, and have a will to preserve the past, mostly, and not just flip. The market to flip doesn't exist really, there are so few buyers, and so the art is hoarded and locked away. With them, the stories of how they were obtained, and the joy that came with its discovery.

I miss these stories and they are fading out forever.

#Sry4theDownbeatPost

[Trudy]

It pains me that the hobby is all but dead as a dying star, flickering in and out of sight. The side effect of this, more than ever, is that many who have such wonderful pieces of art cease to talk about or acknowledge them again publicly.

Outside of the maybe 5-10 percent of collectors who have an online gallery, tens of thousands of grand setups are locked away over the globe, never see see the light again. If the hobby were more healthy, more communities and common groups could spring up and keep the health flow of sharing and trading alive. I've heard so many stories of setups seen at cons in the early to mid 90's, never to be seen again. I myself have never seen the majority of cells lost on eBay or YHJ in the early 2000's. Surely they will be for sale later I thought, but literally never seen again anywhere. Where did they go, who has them I still wonder?

Geez, I'm glad I'm not the only one who wonders this. I managed to find one cell that I lost in an auction over the few years since I started collecting (which admittedly, was fairly recently -- I think I started in 2013?). The only thing that brings me some consolation is that I'm way behind on updating my gallery, and I'm sure there's plenty of others out there the same way who might finally update their galleries and I can finally find out where this or that cel went.

Cell collecting is an incestuous and a stagnant pool in its current form, and everyone who remembers the heyday of the few decades laments the current state of events. Cel collectors have always been an interesting group, the most interesting among the the hobbies I'm a part of. They're very passionate, very knowledgeable, and have a will to preserve the past, mostly, and not just flip. The market to flip doesn't exist really, there are so few buyers, and so the art is hoarded and locked away. With them, the stories of how they were obtained, and the joy that came with its discovery.

I miss these stories and they are fading out forever.

#Sry4theDownbeatPost

I really regret not getting into cel collecting sooner. I missed all that.

[redwolf]

I'm sad at the apparent decline and stagnation, at how this forum has become less and less active, even though I am part of the problem as someone who lost interest. And I just read a post on here about forums vs. social media which rung very true. I'm not huge on social media, but I'm on it far more than forums these days. It hasn't helped that I've fallen away from watching any anime whatsoever. Watching all the new shows used to drive my collector interest.

It's disappointing to hear that the companies have changed in the manner mentioned here. Last DVD/blu-ray I bought was probably the Black Lagoon OVA. Not exactly the same thing, but I remember when an extra was missing from a Funimation set of mine, and they sent a full set of extras, no questions asked.

[ReiTheJelly]

I think part of this hobby dying is the fact that many people are unwilling to accept the fact that their pieces are worth less than they originally paid. I know many people (dealers included) who would rather sit on a cel until it disintegrates than lower their asking price. There are many nice pieces I'd love to add to my collection, but either the gallery owner is MIA or (even if they aren't interested in the hobby any longer) aren't willing to sell for current market value. I've also had to stop buying from a collector in France (who has MANY pieces I want to own) because he is rather dishonest with describing the condition of the cels - he will only post low-resolution pictures and expect me to drop like $1000 based off of them.

[Trudy]

I think part of this hobby dying is the fact that many people are unwilling to accept the fact that their pieces are worth less than they originally paid. I know many people (dealers included) who would rather sit on a cel until it disintegrates than lower their asking price. There are many nice pieces I'd love to add to my collection, but either the gallery owner is MIA or (even if they aren't interested in the hobby any longer) aren't willing to sell for current market value. I've also had to stop buying from a collector in France (who has MANY pieces I want to own) because he is rather dishonest with describing the condition of the cels - he will only post low-resolution pictures and expect me to drop like $1000 based off of them.

This. There's one particular cel dealer who has a bunch of absolutely gorgeous cels that are all priced astonishingly high and they refuse to haggle. I bought a gorgeous cel for $150 with a better shot/angle from the same sequence they have listed on their website for $400.

I've seen these cels sitting unsold on their site since about 2013 (when I started collecting). They're probably going to continue sitting there until the end of time, sadly.

There's a few people who seem to have disappeared from the hobby who have some cels/genga that are on my 'Would Give Kidney For' list. I know it's good that at least I know where they are, but who knows if I'll ever have the chance to get my hands on them.

[cutiebunny]

^ That might be because they might have paid a high amount or because they might be selling that cel on commission. There's one particular seller that was selling CCS cels on commission for a Japanese collector, and he priced those cels at what that person wanted + small commission. In the case of the seller who I believe you're referring to, he makes his money off the original artwork that he sells. He makes quite the killing at conventions, so it doesn't really matter to him whether or not the cels sell. As long as the sketches sell (and they do), he'd rather just sit on the cels.

In regards to the private collectors who are being contacted with inquiries to sell, yes, I can understand why they'd want a higher amount despite there being few collectors of that series now. How do you really tell people that that awesome multilayer key set-up is worth only a fraction of what they originally paid? They might remember the struggle they had getting that item, like getting up at 3am or a month of instant ramen to pay for it, and they could factor that in with how they value that item. I know I get snarky when I receive lowball unsolicited offers, only to be informed that a (crummy) cel of that character sold on eBay two weeks ago for $20, so I shouldn't expect to receive that much more. I'm not accusing anyone reading this of behaving like that, but after receive a couple of those types of offers, it makes you hesitant to even bother to sell. So, in regards to private collectors, I can completely understand why they wouldn't want to accept (much) less than what they paid for the item, especially if they're not trying to sell anything. I'd much rather sit on my collection if the alternative was a fan who wanted to buy a cel for only a fraction of what I paid as well.

[Trudy]

^ That might be because they might have paid a high amount or because they might be selling that cel on commission. There's one particular seller that was selling CCS cels on commission for a Japanese collector, and he priced those cels at what that person wanted + small commission. In the case of the seller who I believe you're referring to, he makes his money off the original artwork that he sells. He makes quite the killing at conventions, so it doesn't really matter to him whether or not the cels sell. As long as the sketches sell (and they do), he'd rather just sit on the cels.

Huh, I wonder if we're talking about the same person, then!

What really ticks me off, though, are the obvious resellers who refuse to budge on price, even when they got the cels for a steal on Yahoo! Japan auctions/Mandarake. I keep pretty close tabs on cels from series I collect on a couple of different websites. It really pisses me off when I miss out on a cel (usually because of lack of funds -- lately, there will be no new cels posted for months, then a huge swaths of cels will all go up for sale at once and I have to prioritize which to buy immediately) only to see it relisted for substantially more a week or two later.

I've gotten to the point where I track cels prices publicly on a fandom sideblog; I've gotten a few people from a shared fandom into collecting cels because I'm always posting / gushing about mine and since they're new to collecting, I'd hate to see them spend $159.99 on a cel that sold on Mandarake for 3500 yen. I know that dealers need to make some money off reselling, but 3-5 times what they paid seems exorbitant, to say the least.

I know I get snarky when I receive lowball unsolicited offers, only to be informed that a (crummy) cel of that character sold on eBay two weeks ago for $20, so I shouldn't expect to receive that much more.

I know this feeling all too well. I don't sell cels, but I am clearing out the brunt of my anime/video game merchandise from the years (trying to downsize -- also, I prefer to collect cels to various knicknacks from series), and I frequently get people offering less than what it would cost to ship the item for the item shipped.

Whenever someone says "Well, I saw X sold for $Y on Z," I just want to go, "Well, why didn't you but it, then?"

[cutiebunny]

What really ticks me off, though, are the obvious resellers who refuse to budge on price, even when they got the cels for a steal on Yahoo! Japan auctions/Mandarake. I keep pretty close tabs on cels from series I collect on a couple of different websites. It really pisses me off when I miss out on a cel (usually because of lack of funds -- lately, there will be no new cels posted for months, then a huge swaths of cels will all go up for sale at once and I have to prioritize which to buy immediately) only to see it relisted for substantially more a week or two later.

This is a common complaint that a lot of us have. There are certain people who buy cels on auction sites only to resell them on eBay for at least double what they paid. Many of these sellers are collectors themselves, and they think nothing of splitting sketch sets if it will give them extra money. The only thing you can do is to ignore their auctions and buy elsewhere. There will still be those who will buy, but not being able to move their current stock as easily as they could should you buy means that they'll have less funds to target what you want.

[Animechaos]

Ohhh I hate that. I've bought a few sketches off Ebay and as soon as they mailed them out to me they put up another one from the same sequence (and a better one at that). Sellers like that don't get anymore of my cash.

[Startyde]

I think part of this hobby dying is the fact that many people are unwilling to accept the fact that their pieces are worth less than they originally paid. I know many people (dealers included) who would rather sit on a cel until it disintegrates than lower their asking price. There are many nice pieces I'd love to add to my collection, but either the gallery owner is MIA or (even if they aren't interested in the hobby any longer) aren't willing to sell for current market value. I've also had to stop buying from a collector in France (who has MANY pieces I want to own) because he is rather dishonest with describing the condition of the cels - he will only post low-resolution pictures and expect me to drop like $1000 based off of them.

OT, but I love that you still have that Takae setup. Is a gorgeous setup.

[Startyde]

Echo all the posted sentiments about cel price gougers online and how the cel market has significantly changed in the last 20 years. Really miss the late 80s through 90s where cels were in abundance and cel fans physically connected at cons and even tried to connect online. Particularly love the informative panels that drew in new collectors and helped experienced collectors too. It was exciting to be in those environments, you could feel the excitement.

Yes our beloved cel hobby is fading, we definitely have come to accept this reality. One thing we feel that might be impacting new collectors is a lack of interest, and possibly, appreciation for the old school anime production process. Your mileage may vary but we notice this especially when chatting with newer and younger anime fans. It seems some fans just do not care about anime production process and are more interested in mass produced products. It shouldn't be surprising since historically, cel collecting has been practiced mainly by the most dedicated and die hard of anime fans.

I believe it's also a generational shift in collecting in general. We live in an era of instant service. You dont have to wait in line for a game or preorder a VHS of an anime released in your home country. No one's parents stress about stores being out of the latest holiday "need to have" toy anymore when you can preorder on amazon months ahead of time. Everything from rides, to movies to gaming is instant access and streamed.

Because of this, why feel the need to own anything when it has always been readily available. The number of kids I know who dont even want to own a car has amazed me in the last few years. Why saddle themselves with the debt when they can uber or take public transportation? I feel the time will swiftly come when the same attitudes are about anything physical.

"Oh, you collect plastic pictures that were used to make short films? Why?"

...good point I suppose. Because why not I guess?

[Punkxprince]

- Resellers like urbantreasurehunterjapan who buy cels only to price gouge by over 100% the very small group of buyers. And urbantreasurehunterjapan refusing to consider reasonable offers, so the cels just sit unsold.

This. 100%. I absolutely cannot stand this particular seller. In the past, he/she has actually outbid me only to list something on eBay at 1000% markup (and even now, years later, most of those cels are still on eBay...).

Indeed. It is pity bad sellers like urbantreasurehunterjapan cannot be stopped.

I have to say that it pains me as well to see this seller's prices. I try to actively avoid anything he has for sale; however, there is one Trigun cel I have had on my watch list for probably a couple years now and I told myself it would be the only thing I'd ever buy from him if I could get the price down far enough. I've submitted offers like every 6 months and they have either been ignored or rejected but today a miracle happened....he accepted my offer! So it's not impossible to get him to accept a reasonable offer but it does take FOREVER.

[Trudy]

This. 100%. I absolutely cannot stand this particular seller. In the past, he/she has actually outbid me only to list something on eBay at 1000% markup (and even now, years later, most of those cels are still on eBay...).

Indeed. It is pity bad sellers like urbantreasurehunterjapan cannot be stopped.

I have to say that it pains me as well to see this seller's prices. I try to actively avoid anything he has for sale; however, there is one Trigun cel I have had on my watch list for probably a couple years now and I told myself it would be the only thing I'd ever buy from him if I could get the price down far enough. I've submitted offers like every 6 months and they have either been ignored or rejected but today a miracle happened....he accepted my offer! So it's not impossible to get him to accept a reasonable offer but it does take FOREVER.

What was the cel? Dare I ask how much you were able to get him down to?

[Punkxprince]

Indeed. It is pity bad sellers like urbantreasurehunterjapan cannot be stopped.

I have to say that it pains me as well to see this seller's prices. I try to actively avoid anything he has for sale; however, there is one Trigun cel I have had on my watch list for probably a couple years now and I told myself it would be the only thing I'd ever buy from him if I could get the price down far enough. I've submitted offers like every 6 months and they have either been ignored or rejected but today a miracle happened....he accepted my offer! So it's not impossible to get him to accept a reasonable offer but it does take FOREVER.

What was the cel? Dare I ask how much you were able to get him down to?

It was a cel of Vash from Trigun. He had it originally listed for $179.99 and occasionally it would go "on sale" for 134.99. I made an offer of $100 and he accepted. Good cels of Vash typically fall within the range of about $100 nowadays so that was a fair amount to pay for it in my opinion.

[Jadeduo]

Everyone should come join us in the Cel Chat if you feel like connecting one of us is almost always in there banging around sometimes it's not so active but I get to talk to collectors everyday and it's a blast!

Usually Me, @earl, @nowherekid85, and some relative newbies @brandon_t, @under9000, and @rookz and more! Are usually in there intermittently throughout the day, so just stop in and chat with us!