Is Teen Gohan SSJ or SSJ2?

[dbzmomma]

Ahhhh, the obssesion that's DBZ... there's nothing like it! I thought the hair stood in stiffer triangles and lightning crackled around them in SSJ2 form.

[Echo]

I thought the hair stood in stiffer triangles and lightning crackled around them in SSJ2 form.

I thought that too..especially with the lightning. That's how I was told to determine the difference btw SSJ and SSJ2.

It's been so long since I've watched DBZ, I should probably pull out the tapes again...

[Nathan]

Yes it does - Which it did for Gohan's Tansformation in the Tournament Saga - and also for his Kamehameha against The Buu Egg - and when he pulls out the Z Sword... I think someone who has the Manga may be able to shed some light.....

I still think he is SSJ2 - but his new hairstyle as a Teen - makes it difficult to judge...

[Nathan]

http://www.anime-beta.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4126

Please allow me to present my interpretation and understanding of this matter. It may be lengthy, but it will be worth reading through.

There are two ascended Saiyans, what I call the true and false versions.

Ascended Saiyan and Ultra Super Saiyan are both nothing more than pumped up Super Saiyan 1's. Recall that on Namek Vegeta thought that he was a Super Saiyan against Frieza. Then he was defeated, and Goku showed up displaying a power even greater than his own. Vegeta then thought Goku was already a Super Saiyan. In reality, they did not know for sure until Goku actually transformed into a new form.

The same applies here. By reaching the cap of power an strength attainable in the Super Saiyan form, Vegeta, Goku and Trunks tried to keep training and keep pressing themselves beyond thier limits. Sure, thier muscles bulked up and thier power continued to grow, but without a new transformation to handle it, they were at a loss. That loss was a lack of speed and a severe drain on stamina and ki as they tried to sustain thier new "Achievement".

They believed that they had ascended, and Vegeta thought that he as Super and Vegeta and Trunks asd Super Trunks had reached the next level. In reality, it was not different than thinking he or Goku were Super Saiyans on namek. No one knew for sure until Gohan made a full change into a new transformed state that easily handled the new level of power and provided a new higher scale of power that could be reached. The True Ascended Saiyan was what Gohan displayed during his fight with Cell. Goku later describes it in his fight with Fat buu as the Ascended Saiyan, or Super Saiyan 2 as he then began to call it.

Okay, now as to who achieved what and when. In the afterlife, they don't need to eat and they don;t run out of stamina as easily or take permanant damage. In such an environment, Goku was easily able to advance faster than anyone could in the living world on Earth. That is how and why he quickly achieved Super Saiyan 2 and progressed to max out his power in that form and reach for Super Saiyan 3.

Seven years went by after the Cell games. Is it even concievable that Vegeta would allow that much time to pass with Kakarot's son stronger than him? I seriously doubt it. Vegeta attained Super Saiyan 2 as well amd trained to surpass Gohan, whose power at the Cell games was his reference point. Although we do not see Goku or Vegeta become Super Saiyan 2 until they fight each other in the Babidi Saga, there are all the clues to suggest that they both have achieved such power ahead of time.

Vegeta states while watching Gohan Super Saiyan 2 fight Dabura that Goku and himself have already surpassed the slacker Gohan who hadn't increased in power at all since the Cell games. Gohan's fighting skills had also deteriorated from his lack of training. He says he could easily take down Dabura without a problem and demands that Goku call Gohan off so he can finish the job. The only way that is true is if Vegeta had reached Super Saiyan 2 already and had already surpassed Gohan in terms of power in the form.

Then when Goku was fighting Yakkon, he reveals a taste of his Super Saiyan 2 power momentarily to give Yakkon the blast of ki energy that explodes him from the inside.

Vegeta had achieved Super Saiyan 2, but at that moment he realized that his power as Super Saiyan 2 did not even begin to compare to Goku who had maxed out in the form and even surpassed it. Vegeta at least sensed Goku's power and knew he did not stand a chance. He allowed Babidi to use him so he could get the power boost that the spell granted. That's all it did, boost Vegeta's power as Super Saiyan 2 to maximum to put him on equal footing with Goku Super Saiyan 2.

Anything that says Vegeta BECAME Super Saiyan 2 from Babidi's magic is piss poor fansites that copy all thier info from each other, or at most a poorly done fansub. Reading the manga, or watching the Official release anime with subtitles reveals the clues that show that my viewpoint is correct and it makes sense.

I hope I have made a clear argument and have aided in understanding this often confusing issue. Thanks for reading through all my response.

I like this read- though it does not directly reference Gohan in SSJ2 form - It makes sense to me

[porunga143]

i'm with Nathan on this one. once you become super saiyan 2 it's not something you forget...gohan's lack of training just weakens him. the difficulty is not whether gohan can go ssj2 as a teen, but rather whether he DOES go ssj 2. i'm of the impression he does. I do like the hair argument that is being put forward. ssj2 does not depend on ki effects and lightning flashes if you ask me - look at the fight of goku v vegeta - look at vicci's cel (am writing this in a rush or a cel i shall be updating tomorrow in my gallery), his hair isnt golden but everyone accepts he is super saiyan two at this point). after all, when goku fights buu in super saiyan form near the end, his hair isnt glowing but i'm pretty sure his hair is in super saiyan two form - goku's hair does not grow remember but there is a distinct change in hairstyle between his super saiyan and ssj2 forms. i do believe the same occurs with gohan during the babidi saga in particular. but that's just my opinion. compare these two cels of mine, one has already been used in this post:

http://capcelcorp.rubberslug.com/galler ... emID=28268
http://capcelcorp.rubberslug.com/galler ... emID=28270

In the sparring cel with goten i believe gohan to be only ssj 1 - it woudl make sense. he wouldn't be pushed as hard by goten if he was ssj2 here and is an active choice on gohan's part not to go ssj2 - it would waste unnecessary energy afterall. yet, gohan would push himself as hard as possible to destroy buu so i see no reason stopping gohan going ssj2. the attention to detail in the hair has always inclined me to believe that. though, it may simply be explained by the fact that that cel is better drawn than the other one. i just can't accept ssj2 was a form gohan could only achieve once (twice including the bojack movie) . goku continues to be able to go ssj2 - against vegeta, then buu, so why not gohan?????

also, i don't think it's the fact that gohan is only ssj2 during the cell games and the bojack movie. i believe this to be a misconception amongst many collectors that inflates their prices unnecessarily- i think those cels are so expensive because of its when gohan first goes ssj 2 as regards the cell games and is one of the defining moments of gohan in the entire series which everyone immediately identifies with (kinda like goku going ssj first time on namek.)

equally, while we on the matter? mystic gohan's power equivalent to ssj3???? goku is amazed at gohan's power "without even trying" when he goes mystic on the kai's planet yet goku knows what ssj3 feels like.

[dbzmomma]

Like Nathan said. I know when Gohan "takes it to the next level" at the tournament at the request of Kibito, (and I really love this transformation because it shows every detail of it — the eyes, the energy climbing the black spikes), he bursts into SSJ, then with a shriek (and one of the best cels ever) he goes SSJ2, as the tiles fall and energy-lightning crackles all around him. Look at Marauder's cel.

http://marauder.home.mindspring.com/gallery/index.html

It doesn't show the lightning, but that hair gives it away. And the fierce look.